coolhandjjl Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 then again... we can 3d print those now days. I've wondered that myself until I realized that the 3D medium itself may have a resonant frequency within the pass band. That's the beauty of MDF horns, any resonant frequency is well below what anyone would run them at .......well until now..... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) You're amazing Dave. Seriously. I'm proud to know you both as friend and peer.Wow Dean, quite the compliment coming from someone as creatively artistic and meticulous as you are. Dave. Dude, every time we talk, which is quite a lot, you're like, "...just finished another horn, pics are up, go check if out when you get a chance..." - and so I go look, and the work is always awesome, and it only took you like two days. Lol. Edited January 1, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 "2482 uses the same driver body as the JBL 2440 and JBL 2441 drivers with the main difference" The top plate is also thicker. A metal diaphragm may be used in a 2482 by re-drilling the dowel pin loctions on the replacement diaphragms. "The concave side (some think of it as the reverse side) of the diaphragm dome faces the compression chamber and phase plug" The WE555, Klipsch K55, and various EV, RCF, (and others) use convex diaphragms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You're amazing Dave. Seriously. I'm proud to know you both as friend and peer.Wow Dean, quite the compliment coming from someone as creatively artistic and meticulous as you are.Dave. Dude, every time we talk, which is quite a lot, you're like, "...just finished another horn, pics are up, go check if out when you get a chance..." - and so I go look, and the work is always awesome, and it only took you like two days. Lol. I really envy those folks who have so much energy that they can do in a week what would take me a year. However, I am able to be really relaxed most of the time, so that's a useful skill, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 However, I am able to be really relaxed most of the time, so that's a useful skill, too. That is truly a gift, I am for the most part a work-a-holic. I have to plan camping trips in order to relax, because if I am in reach of my tools ((its on)). My neighbors are probably tired of hearing the CNC router running non stop. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dave, Did these go to their rightful owner? Craig NOS Valves I think. What does he think of them? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 These are currently in storage, Craig is not yet ready for them. The Smaller Khorn set was in use at Johnny 5's for a while, He loves them. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dave, There is a third size also? I mean there is the eliptrac like i and others have and there are these big boys for Craig and there is an in betweener? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Yes, its actually a truncated version of the 240 designed to fit in a KHorn with modified riser. Top Eliptrac 400 Bottom Eliptrac 240KHorn build Top Eliptrac 400 Bottom Eliptrac 240 Nos Valve build notice how much wider than the Eliptrac 400 Dave Edited February 20, 2014 by GotHover 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 My shopping list includes a horn that crosses over at 300-350 so looking at 100hz-175hz tractrix round horns. Also need a pair of JBL 2482s. This project should be wrapped up next year. I'd love to hear a three way eliptrac system on top of a big bass horn or khorn. You can cross a Klipsch K-1133 driver at 300 Hz. for home use. It goes out out to 4,000-5,000 on a K-402. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I was hoping someone else would jump on this one. Dummy question? Please explain in detail what unloading is. I can't be the only non engineer to wonder.Not a dumb question.Driver unloading occurs when the energy applied to the drivers diaphram is lower then the horns cutoff frequency. What happens is the driver diaphram starts moving excessively causing intermod distortion. Basically the only dampening the driver has below the horns cutoff is the diaphrams suspension and motor assy. Best example I can think of is using a driver open air rather than in a box for loading. In this example the sealed box resistance is the load, in a ported box the port resistance is the load. I am sure there are better explanations, and examples. Dave This artice has a lot of good info. http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Dinsdale_Horns_2.pdf I will defer to you Dave, but for a good example that we can all think of, it is like blowing into a straw vs the open air, you get a "backpressure" that loads the front of the driver. Great read. Thanks for the link, Dave. I'm definitely jealous of your CNC capabilities. I have heard your oval 400 Hz. horn at Panacea and really sounds good. So I can only imagine what the "big one" does. The Dinsdale article sure makes a good argument for using a LaScala type horn with a sub from 100 Hz. on down, pretty much like I have been advocating. So it would appear that there are many people "breaking the rules" as outlined in the paper than there are that are using using subs. Agreed that I may be pushing the edge of the "envelope" a bit by crossing at 320 Hz., but when I measure only 10 Milliwatts of average power for normal listening, I think it would take a microscope to see any kind of excessive diaphragm motion. It looks like your big horn would do a great job on the K1133 driver. I'm not sure if Klipsch still makes it or not since I got mine used. I guess it boils down to choice of trade-offs and what one can hear distortion-wise. Edited February 21, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 With a steep filter the horn would probably be ok to 300hz, as long as the driver is usable that low. I looked at several drivers for crossing lower than 400hz, they are few and far between. Power handling is certainly key. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 You're amazing Dave. Seriously. I'm proud to know you both as friend and peer. Wow Dean, quite the compliment coming from someone as creatively artistic and meticulous as you are. Dave. Now now. Don't break your arms patting each other on the back. No matter how well deserved either way. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) With a steep filter the horn would probably be ok to 300hz, as long as the driver is usable that low. I looked at several drivers for crossing lower than 400hz, they are few and far between. Power handling is certainly key. Dave Like I said elsewhere. I average about 10 Milliwatts of input into this huge driver made by KLIPSCH in Hope (they did 10 years ago, not sure if they still do). It was designed for 3-way, so someone would need your new little tweeter horn in the 4-5Khz. on up range. The beauty of this driver is that it is Titatnium and NOT Phenolic, so it's transient response is incredible down that low. I know Dean hates the Titanium sound, based on his K-69 ownership, but I'm using it with natural rolloff and not trying to make a super tweeter out of it like the 2-way guys that cram a +12-15 db shelving EQ at 3Khz. that amplifies all the "nasties" that occur in the 15 Khz. range, and the main reason I prefer 3-way, soon to have time align instead of just single caps at the low end. Tweeters are cool with me. Here's the plot of the RAW response on the horn. Edited February 20, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Nothing wrong with that, I am sure it sounds great. I too prefer the sound of phenolic or paper. I really like the DCM-50 treated paper driver, I should get another set to demo with. Dave Edited February 20, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Dean hates the Titanium sound, based on his K-69 ownership, but I'm using it with natural rolloff and not trying to make a super tweeter out of it like the 2-way guys that cram a +12-15 db shelving EQ at 3Khz. that amplifies all the "nasties" that occur in the 15 Khz. range, and the main reason I prefer 3-way, soon to have time align instead of just single caps at the low end. Tweeters are cool with me. I totally agree with you on this, 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel TJ Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 GotHover, Can you expand a bit on the performance differences between the Eliptrac 240 and the 400? I am looking at upgrading my (split) La Scala mid horns and this seems like an excellent candidate. Other than the potential to run it lower than 400hz, how is does the sound differ from the Eliptrac 400? Is it better in the lower midrange? Not as good in the upper midrange? How about dispersion? Also, could one use the k-55 with a 1" to 2" adapter like you can with the Eliptrac 400? I would eventually upgrade to a 2" driver, but it would be nice to use the k-55 with the 240 horn until that time comes. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The two horns have similar dispersion characteristics. The 240 is a much larger horn and in that respect sound like a larger horn sound. The 240 is recommended for 3-way operation, where the 400 can be used 2 way. Other than that the horns sound and perform similar. I do not recommend the use of the adapter because there is a lot to be gained from using a 2 inch driver, however the adapter would work. Please keep in mind this horn is really large. Send me a PM for more info. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel TJ Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thanks for the reply! I have split Scalas, so the size of the horn is not a concern to me. The bigger the better! I am planning on staying 3-way, so I think the 240 is the one for me. I definitely plan on going 2", but good 2" drivers aren't cheap so it is good to know I can get away with keeping the k-55 until I can afford to upgrade. Now I just need to scrape together some spare cash and order that kit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Thanks for the reply! I have split Scalas, so the size of the horn is not a concern to me. The bigger the better! I am planning on staying 3-way, so I think the 240 is the one for me. I definitely plan on going 2", but good 2" drivers aren't cheap so it is good to know I can get away with keeping the k-55 until I can afford to upgrade. Now I just need to scrape together some spare cash and order that kit! Another Tarheel huh and one with split LS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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