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Vega211R

Klipsch Heresy 1's SOUND

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I posted this yesterday in the General Questions Section, but this might be the right place for what I'm asking:

After hearing some Heresy 1's at a buddy house a year or so ago,I knew I had to get me a pair. I also wanted a pair in good cosmetic condition. After watching Ebay for quite sometime I found a pair described as all original with nothing ever done to them. Their cosmetic condition turned out to be 99.95% Mint. Like new. A great find. But somehow they don't sound near as good as the ones my buddy had, which he no longer does. He sold them to his brother out of state. Anyhow, I know my receiver is quite a bit better than the one he had. My CD player is also much better. I'm even listening to the very same CD/music. His speakers sounded better. I can only think of two things that could be making the difference. One being the difference in the acoustics of the two different rooms. The other would be my speakers may need some type of work. I am new to the Heresy's but I've read that maybe the crossovers could be part of the problem. I don't know. Don't get me wrong, they do sound good, but far from great. As for as his speakers, I do not know if they were all original such as mine. I do not know if any work was ever done on his. So, any thoughts?? Help Welcome..

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three things immediately come to mind...

source material issues

room correction or LP layout issues

possible Cross Over Issues

if you have never owned a klipsch speaker, they are EXTREMELY efficient.... that can mean it magnifies poor sound. The heresy is a great little speaker if you are in slightly smaller tight spaces, if you are in larger spaces and are trying to drive them at higher outputs, you are going to get more distortions from either signal degradation or room reflections.

I guess we need a little more info from you. Is your Amplifier a solid state unit?

Edited by Schu

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three things immediately come to mind...

source material issues

room correction or LP layout issues

possible Cross Over Issues

if you have never owned a klipsch speaker, they are EXTREMELY efficient.... that can mean it magnifies poor sound. The heresy is a great little speaker if you are in slightly smaller tight spaces, if you are in larger spaces and are trying to drive them at higher outputs, you are going to get more distortions from either signal degradation or room reflections.

I guess we need a little more info from you. Is your Amplifier a solid state unit?

My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V2600 and I have a Sony C79ES cd player. My room size is appox. 20x20. At my friends the room that his stereo was in was a little larger. I remember coming home and playing the same CD on my system with my speakers and his Heresy's sounded much better. I can't say that now with my Heresy's. I know my receiver and player would rate better than what he had at that time. I'm thinking the acoustics or speakers. Or maybe even a combination. I don't know..

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I've read that it is difficult to get acoustics right in a square room.

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Did he have a sub in the equation? Heresey's are known to be a little light on the bass front and in most circumstances require a subwoofer as well.

Best regards,

John

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I'm going with the crossovers. If they are original they are pretty old and probably need to be redone. Not a big job, by any means. Also make sure you set your Yamaha to stereo output (if you can) as it would sound better. As an aside, save up a few bucks for a small tube amp {15 watts is really all you need for a Heresy, they are very efficient }. I have a Scott amp and I fill my room with sound with about 5 watts.

Edited by Dr Morbius

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First thing I would do is try a different receiver> I had the same issue. My thought… . vintage speakers….vintage electronics. Good luck!

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This could be critical for you to like them. Read through the mod in the link shown. Assuming all drivers are ok, you make a couple of changes to your crossovers. It will help to even out impedance swings and let you drop the mid driver level down a little bit. It's a long thread that bounces around, but really, read it.

Bruce

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/114718-i-know-its-a-lot-to-ask-heresy-i-crossovers/?hl=%2Bheresy+%2Bmod#entry1268614

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I'm sorry I did not mention this earlier about my other amp. I also have a Sansui 9090DB which I have also tried with the Heresy's. I did get a different/warmer sound, but not what I was looking for. My buddy's sounded very clean, meaning even at low volume all sounded crystal, a fair bass. He had no subwoofer hooked up. As I said, they do sound ok. There's no static or noise you might hear with somethng blown. Just kinda muddy.

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There may be two versions of the so called Heresy I: The very old one (1950s?) that was meant to be a fill-in center channel between two Klipschorns in PWK's original (early) "Wide Stage Stereo," and the Heresy I that was meant as a stand alone speaker. Both used the same mid driver and tweeter as the Klipschorn (with a shorter mid horn, naturally). If there was a difference, I suspect that it would be in the crossover network (i.e., EQ re releative levels of the three speakers. Replacing the crossovers (just one first) might do the trick.

Have you checked to confirm that the tweeters and mids are working in both speakers? It's not unheard of to blow out the tweeters in both stereo channels at once.

Is your room over-damped?

I borrowed a Heresy in the '70s and it was, indeed, "muddy." It may have been one my friend the dealer had in the back since the '50s. I haven't heard a "muddy" one since.

Good Luck!

Edited by Garyrc

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This could be critical for you to like them. Read through the mod in the link shown. Assuming all drivers are ok, you make a couple of changes to your crossovers. It will help to even out impedance swings and let you drop the mid driver level down a little bit. It's a long thread that bounces around, but really, read it.

Bruce

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/114718-i-know-its-a-lot-to-ask-heresy-i-crossovers/?hl=%2Bheresy+%2Bmod#entry1268614

I just read thru this. Maybe I might start off by cleaning all the internal as was stated. This pair of Heresy's were made in 1977. So they are getting up in age. I'm sorted feeling as that guy was about the originally and value. As I said earlier, these Heresy's are 99.95 Mint. No scratches. No dings. Not even on the bottom of the speakers. They do look new. The original owner said they always sat on some type of cloth on speaker stands. The backs have never been off. So by them looking this good, I am a little leary about messing with them. But, they don't sound as good as they look.

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Even though the cabinets are sealed, it wouldn't hurt to take the backs off, loosen and re-tighten the screws on the crossovers. I would also check the connections to the drivers themselves as well.

An electric screwdriver or varispeed reversible drill will save your wrists...

We can appreciate the minty cabinets, but looking pretty and sounding wrong won't make you happy. ;)

Bruce

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Guest David H

Even though the cabinets are sealed, it wouldn't hurt to take the backs off, loosen and re-tighten the screws on the crossovers. I would also check the connections to the drivers themselves as well.

An electric screwdriver or varispeed reversible drill will save your wrists...

We can appreciate the minty cabinets, but looking pretty and sounding wrong won't make you happy. ;)

Bruce

Also, while you are inside tighten all of the screws on the drivers, tighten the mid driver snug to the horn and install gasket material to properly seal the back panels.

Dave

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Even though the cabinets are sealed, it wouldn't hurt to take the backs off, loosen and re-tighten the screws on the crossovers. I would also check the connections to the drivers themselves as well.

An electric screwdriver or varispeed reversible drill will save your wrists...

We can appreciate the minty cabinets, but looking pretty and sounding wrong won't make you happy. ;)

Bruce

Oh I agree. I will try and do everything that was suggested in your post and others. I'm not certain how far I will want to go with the Heresy's if indeed they are the problem. I really do want to keep them. Just their cosmetic condition and how they stayed that way is a story in itself. I got the scoop from the original owner after I first got them in. As nice and great as I think Klipsch speakers are, I also like the Paradigm Studio 100's. Is it OK to say that here?? I know they are another whole sound. But a good one. For my center channel I'm using the Klipsch RC-64. I really like it. Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions.

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As nice and great as I think Klipsch speakers are, I also like the Paradigm Studio 100's. Is it OK to say that here??

Yes, it's certainly ok to say that here.

I have some Heresy IIs in a 20x20x9.5 room, and they are sounding mighty fine.

Bruce

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Even though the cabinets are sealed, it wouldn't hurt to take the backs off, loosen and re-tighten the screws on the crossovers. I would also check the connections to the drivers themselves as well.

An electric screwdriver or varispeed reversible drill will save your wrists...

We can appreciate the minty cabinets, but looking pretty and sounding wrong won't make you happy. ;)

Bruce

As nice and great as I think Klipsch speakers are, I also like the Paradigm Studio 100's. Is it OK to say that here?? I know they are another whole sound. But a good one.

If your Heresy is working correctly, you would need an amplifier at least twice as powerful to get the same headroom out of the Studio 100 that you would get now with the Heresy.... but I don't know how powerful the amps you listed are; they might be powerful enough for either speaker.

Edited by Garyrc

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"I am a little leary about messing with them"

I see your type in the old car market all the time. They would rather drive something all 'original' than fix it up to be safe and drive well.

I paid someone here top dollar ($500 shipped) for an old pair of Heresy. They looked like they had been trolled behind a pickup truck on a log chain, and needed tweeters to boot. New caps, the resistor and tap mod, new diaphragms, and a router round-over and black paint job, and they are better than new.

YMMV

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"I am a little leary about messing with them"

I see your type in the old car market all the time. They would rather drive something all 'original' than fix it up to be safe and drive well.

I paid someone here top dollar ($500 shipped) for an old pair of Heresy. They looked like they had been trolled behind a pickup truck on a log chain, and needed tweeters to boot. New caps, the resistor and tap mod, new diaphragms, and a router round-over and black paint job, and they are better than new.

YMMV

I see your type in the old car market all the time. They would rather drive something all 'original' than fix it up to be safe and drive well.

Yes, I also know the type. But I want the BEST of BOTH WORLDS. If I am able. If I can afford it. That's why I'm asking for help here to try and diagnose and fix the problem. And yep, when it comes to certain things, I, like many others do like originally. Whether it be a old pair of speakers or a black 1980 Corvette with the L82. Because its Original only Once. But if there are problems, and you do it right, you may be able to have both, functional and original, or something really close. We should all be safe and drive well. The reason I said what I said, about being a little leary about messing them up, because it I do mess them up, scratch em, ding em or whatever, I'm going to kick myself in the ***.LOL And I do have that Corvette. Safe to drive and pretty much all original.. :)

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Even though the cabinets are sealed, it wouldn't hurt to take the backs off, loosen and re-tighten the screws on the crossovers. I would also check the connections to the drivers themselves as well.

An electric screwdriver or varispeed reversible drill will save your wrists...

We can appreciate the minty cabinets, but looking pretty and sounding wrong won't make you happy. ;)

Bruce

As nice and great as I think Klipsch speakers are, I also like the Paradigm Studio 100's. Is it OK to say that here?? I know they are another whole sound. But a good one.

If your Heresy is working correctly, you would need an amplifier at least twice as powerful to get the same headroom out of the Studio 100 that you would get now with the Heresy.... but I don't know how powerful the amps you listed are; they might be powerful enough for either speaker.

The Yamaha RX-V2600 is a 7.1 rated at 130 RMS per channel. The Sansui 9090DB is 2 channel stereo rated at 125 RMS per channel.

Edited by Vega211R

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