Poor Bass (DENON 3312 + RF-82)!

[derrickdj1]

He may be better off using the sub with music since it is located between the mains.  This way he can run the speakers as small and not use the LFE + mains.  He may be getting some cancellation.  I may be wrong, I have not used Auddyseey in a long time.

[PravinE]

 

 

Mustang Guy (directly upstream) quoted from your Denon manual and that sounds like what might be wrong.

he states he sets the sub to LFE plus main. I find myself with audussey that it's perfect for movies. With music I bump the sub up 6db IF I use the sub. Lots of times I change audussey off and then sub to no and mains switch automatically to full band.

 

I saw that, but he stated also that he is having trouble in stereo 2.0, which tells me he has disabled the sub during stereo listening. Kinda contradictory...

 

Yes I disabled the sub, so all sound goes into Front RandL, but still no impact of low bass...

[Coleman]

Your lacking bass for two channel music? But you don't want to run your subwoofer? Why not? That makes no sense to me. Like I stated before in an earlier post I am running the 3312 in my setup and it lacks no bass whatsoever. There is something your missing in the setup. Check your PM's.

[Heritage_Head]

Manual eq your bass up on the 82s. I would bet money it works.

[derrickdj1]

It make no sense to me to want great bass and have a nice sub which is design to make bass and not use it?  Just curious.  It should be part of the solution in this case.

[willland]

Yes I disabled the sub, so all sound goes into Front RandL, but still no impact of low bass...

 

Something has got to be wrong.  When I run my RF-63's in stereo(2.0), they are not shy of bass, even in my 6000+ ft3 room.  Now I do run them with subs(2.4) most of the time because in that configuration the sound is more enveloping with a wider/deeper soundstage.

 

The RF-82's with their 4--8" woofers(201.06 sq. in.) do have a a tiny amount more surface area than the RF-63's with 6--6.5" woofers(199.08 sq. in.) so bass response should pretty even.

 

Now my rig does have one advantage, I am driving the 63's with an Acurus A200 which is known for having fast punchy bass driving capabilities.

 

Bill

Edited September 19, 2014 by willland

[Heritage_Head]

Good bass is not the same for everyone. My dad has a small 10" polk and is very happy with the bass he has. EQ the bass up to the level you want. Been there done that

[PravinE]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for your response!!

 

Really speaking, all your suggest didn't worked for me....

 

I did the same as per the all your suggest.

 

I feel my choice RF-82 + Denon 3312 it really bad combination for 2.0 channels.

 

Today I asked my friend to provide his 2.0 stereo amp (Pioneer A-229) to test the bass on my RF-82.

 

Wow Wow!! I so impressed... what a BASS... I really felt very proud to have a Klipsch speakers....

 

After 2 years today only I saw the real effect of RF-82.

 

- Pravin

[derrickdj1]

Glad to hear you have an answer.

[willland]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for your response!!

 

Really speaking, all your suggest didn't worked for me....

 

I did the same as per the all your suggest.

 

I feel my choice RF-82 + Denon 3312 it really bad combination for 2.0 channels.

 

Today I asked my friend to provide his 2.0 stereo amp (Pioneer A-229) to test the bass on my RF-82.

 

Wow Wow!! I so impressed... what a BASS... I really felt very proud to have a Klipsch speakers....

 

After 2 years today only I saw the real effect of RF-82.

 

- Pravin

 

 

That's great.

 

All you needed was the right amp.

 

Bill

[PravinE]

Hi All,

 

I decided to go for Power Amp.

 

I am planning to keep my existing system Denon 3312 as a pre amp and adding new Marantz MM-7055 Power Amp.

 

Due to budget issue, I won't be able go for new per amp in Marantz. 

 

Any suggestion on this setup (Denon 3312 as a per amp + Marantz MM-7055 as a power amp)?

 

Thanks,

Pravin

[Heritage_Head]

The pre stage could be part of why you did not get the bass you want. The pre stage of the Pioneer A-229 could be what gave you the bass your looking for. Just saying before you spend money on a power amp.

[Scrappydue]

+1 for what reference is saying. Power should be the issue. Might be the denon you aren't in love with. I have no clue what or how old that receiver you heard was but I had an old pioneer sx-980 and it made my bottom of the line reference sound better than my top of the line reference when they run in my denon upstairs. Back then they cares 100% about sound quality and nothing else.

[Zen Traveler]

It make no sense to me to want great bass and have a nice sub which is design to make bass and not use it?  Just curious.  It should be part of the solution in this case.

 

I see the OP picked his own post as "Best Answer" but this one gets my vote--Run the speakers as small and set a crossover at 60 to 80 Hz.

[garyrc]

I'm a little confused. It seems like you are saying you have the speakers set to large but you also have a crossover set at 80hz. If your speakers are set to large there is no crossover setting applied. With 48 inch Wolfers you should definitely be getting a decent amount of bass.

Can you post a picture of your room so we can see how do your speakers are set up and where their position?

 

I think that if the mains are set to LARGE and the setting marked SUBWOOFER MODE (or the like) is set for LFE+MAIN, then the frequencies below the crossover (80 Hz in his case) are sent to BOTH the MAINS and the SUBWOOFER.  At least I have verified that this is true with my Marantz pre-pro.  As my monitor screen says, "Play bass of Large speakers also from SW."  This is called "double bass" in some other brands of pre-pro or AVRs. 

 

A great number of people warn against this option, because there can be phase problems if your mains and sub are reproducing the same range.  But it all depends on your room, speaker location, etc., etc.  After much experimentation, over about a year, I find that in my room, from our listening positions, the phase problems do not materialize.  REW confirms that the bass curve doesn't sag any where due to cancellation or attenuation, and there is a distinct increase in bass in some parts of the curve.  Although I play most movies with the mains at SMALL, for some movies that are lacking in the bass I remember in the theater, I try LARGE with LFE+MAIN.  One of these cases is the Blu-ray of How The West Was Won.  With LFE+Main, and mains LARGE, the male chorus is much heartier and the bass much richer.  I wouldn't use that setting with most modern movies, because I imagine the reproduction is "purer" with SMALL .... but I don't A-B every movie, so I don't know.

 

IMO, the original poster should try it both ways. 

 

I can't imagine the AVR being at fault, unless it is underpowered, period, or is one of those that are underpowered when all channels are operating.

[Steely Dan]

Pravin,

I had the same issue with my rf-82s and denon avr 300 (entry level) avr. My old Bose 701 and technics Avr (16 yr old system), had more bass. The denon manual is poorly written so you need to experiment.

Here's what I did that made a night and day difference:

-set front speakers to small

-set sub crossover to 80, phase to 0

-SET "RESTORER" TO LOW (makes a huge difference)

-press 'music" in denon remote and select stereo, if you press "Pure" button sound will be very flat

-turn on audyssey AND dynamic eq

-if you still want more bass, move up the volume in the sub, not the avr subwoofer trim level

Let me know if it works.

[JJkizak]

I was hoping you wouldn't have to play around with the newer Denon's which I made go to in the future.

JJK

[psg]

It's very strange to me that in stereo there is little bass.  I wonder if settings are correct in the Denon.

 

Try using your Denon as a pre-amp and feed the RCA output to your friend's Pioneer A-229.  If the bass is back, you have confirmed that the amp of the Denon is the problem.  If the bass is still gone, you have confirmed that it's a setting in the Denon's pre stage.

[garyrc]

Try using your Denon as a pre-amp and feed the RCA output to your friend's Pioneer A-229. If the bass is back, you have confirmed that the amp of the Denon is the problem. If the bass is still gone, you have confirmed that it's a setting in the Denon's pre stage.

 

Exactly!  You really need to know if the problem is in the power amp section or the preamp section of the Denon, or in the way the Denon preamp is set up.

 

I can't tell from the picture if your RF82s are in the room corners.  Are they?  If they are not, when you have followed the above procedure, if there still is not enough bass, you might try putting the mains (RF & LF) in the corners.  Start with the rear corner of each cabinet almost touching the two walls in their respective room corners, with the speakers aimed right at the main listening position.   Also try placing the speakers a few inches out from the corner (in case the sound from the rear firing ports is partly trapped when the speakers are pushed back all the way into the corner).  One of these placements should give you even more bass than with your speakers along a wall.  It's worth a try.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Garyrc

[sully141]

I have the same issue with my Denon 4250 running my 83s when I have it on pure. But movie sound grest with my 5.2 setup, just odd cuz the 83s sounded awesome on pure with my onkyo 809.