Finally hearing the harshness people speak of

[garyrc]

One thing I will try, as well, it's running the CDs into my marantz AVR, which only has MultEQ, and see whether the audyssey makes any improvement. I found, though, with my previous set-up (F3s and denon avr) that I preferred audyssey off for music

 

MultEQ is not nearly as good as MultEQ XT, and those who have heard it say that MultEQ XT32 is much better, although I don't know if it has the BBC dip.  People I know don't like any form of Audyssey unless bass boost is added afterward (and not with virtual sliders -- most of those turn Audyssey off -- make sure the Audyssey indicator light stays on).

 

It is logical that if some sources sound good and some bad that it is a source problem, and, IMO, it is usually true, but I'm not sure that it's empirically verifiable in all cases.   I've had situations in which a small number of CDs sounded good with the sound system in a certain room and bad (specifically, harsh, or prone to a midrange resonance) in another room, with no equipment changes.  In those cases, the majority of CDs, SACDs, BDs sounded good in both rooms. 

 

If I were you, I'd continue to experiment until I drove myself silly. 

 

I have quite a few CDs that are good, as you say, only as drink coasters.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Garyrc

[mustang guy]

Did you get all that Emjay?  My head is spinning. You sure did get a lot of advice all at once. Lucky you!

 

 

This is the best forum on the web...

[Deang]

I'm very familiar with the two CDs you mentioned, and they are unlistenable on my LaScalas, which sound outstanding with well recorded material. Someone mentioned Blu-Ray concerts, and I tend to lean that way myself.

Edited October 12, 2014 by DeanG

[jimmytamp]

Hi.

I recently purchased a pair of RF-83s via ebay.

First up, I'm in Australia, where klipsch is much harder to come by.

I started with quintets, then upgraded to Synergy F3/C3/S2, and have finally stepped up to the Reference series.

To mixed feelings.

Much of the time, the 83s sound truly phenomenal, and I couldn't be happier.

BUT... every now and then, with some music, I feel like the horns overlap, somehow, and pierce my ears :-(

I've never heard the harshness, before, which some people complain about with klipsch, but now that I've stepped up to the flagship reference speaker (arguably - or is it the 7?) and turning up the music leaves me unhappy

I have to stress, this is only apparent with some music.

To try to eliminate variables, I am only playing CDs at the moment.

I have somewhat of a wide range of music in my collection.

Jazz seems supreme - reproduction of saxophone is magical.

Orchestral, in general, is splendid.

However, when I listen to Guns and Roses, for example, or even some of the hihat/cymbals on the Blood Sugar Sex Magic album by the chilli peppers, it's almost unbearable.

Hotel California is fantastic (as is The Eagles excellent Farewell blu ray, but I digress), but some Led Zeppelin hurts.

I am using a Cambridge Audio 751BD for CD/blu ray duties, connected via RCA into my primary amp, a Chinese tube/SS hybrid (Bada purer 3.0). This delivers 30wpc in class A, and then another 100 watts are available in class AB, and has about 120 hours on it, having been purchased specifically for the 83s

I have also tried using a Rotel RB976, which did nothing to address the issue, and overall sounded worse.

I was using some cheap speaker wire, so I purchased some 13 gauge wire from my local electronics store which may have made a slight improvement in overall sound, but has not solved the problem (and, to be honest, this might be in my head).

Is it just a matter of some music/CDs not working with the 83s?

I really appreciate any advice or assistance from any of you, as I was so excited the night before they arrived that I could barely sleep (like when I was a kid the night before Christmas!), and now I'm almost regretting the purchase

Welcome to the Forum...

[Anotherforumname]

Klipsch speakers can be a bit tricky on placement as I have found out with a recent pair of Forte 2's. I too had some shrillness but thanks to this forum they now sound fantastic. I also have some other non horn speakers that are picky on set up as well, just a few degrees and they are painful sometimes. Congratulations!

[Rick J B]

A lot of recordings simply sound like crap, and a convoluted chain of band-aids between you and said crappy recording won't change that. 

[Schu]

On a personal note... I can not listen to a speak directed on axis at the LP... I need a few degress of wider deflection to get the best imaging and comfort. The degree offset needed is different for each application and in fact for each source material... but there is no way I am moving a speak for each disc I play .

[mattSER]

Sounds like I may be in the minority here, but I prefer my speakers aimed directly at my listening position.

I take this so far as to use a laser level and a mirror and adjust until I see the laser hitting my ear.

I find that the soundstage is actually larger this way.

[ClaudeJ1]

e a slight improvement in overall sound, but has not solved the problem (and, to be honest, this might be in my head).

Is it just a matter of some music/CDs not working with the 83s?

I really appreciate any advice or assistance from any of you, as I was so excited the night before they arrived that I could barely sleep (like when I was a kid the night before Christmas!), and now I'm almost regretting the purchase

The best speakers reveal bad recordings, period. I found that the easiest thing to do is get an Onkyo 818 used or refurbed. It Has Audyssey XT/32. You can use the Pre-outs if you prefer an external amp. You don't have to do 7.1 with it, you can do 2.0, or 2.1 if you have subs. It will figure out your speakers automatically, no matter what you have.

 

With 3 microphone samples (nose, Right ear, and Left ear at the sweet spot), it will smooth any room/speaker combination and built a Stairway to Heaven for you.

Edited October 5, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[Schu]

Sounds like I may be in the minority here, but I prefer my speakers aimed directly at my listening position.

I take this so far as to use a laser level and a mirror and adjust until I see the laser hitting my ear.

I find that the soundstage is actually larger this way.

Flatter is a better description... not "larger“.

[derrickdj1]

Careful with that mirror?

[ajoker2c]

 

Sounds like I may be in the minority here, but I prefer my speakers aimed directly at my listening position.

I take this so far as to use a laser level and a mirror and adjust until I see the laser hitting my ear.

I find that the soundstage is actually larger this way.

Flatter is a better description... not "larger“.

 

Flatter soundstage I don't understand. Larger soundstage I can identify what he means.

[Quiet_Hollow]

If the issue is with the sources, it's disappointing, since there's nothing that I can really do about it.

Welcome to the club. 

 

Some of the newer CD's are too bright and compressed, particularly in rock I've noticed. I have CD's purchased back in the 80's that sound better than the newer ones.

Digital clipping is a *****.

 

It can't be stressed enough that, when using the DR website that Chris linked to, to look at the data for the album and not just the DR number. Why?

 

 Because if any track is clipped, it won't matter what the DR value implies. It'll sound harsh (from aliasing) no matter what. 

[Emjay]

OK, so having toed out the speakers actually made the single biggest difference.

 

I tried playing CDs through my Marantz AVR with Audyssey, but I found myself largely unimpressed. I think Audyssey works fantastically well for movies, not so well for music.

 

Maybe, one day, I will get a new AVR with XT32 to see whether I like it for music.

 

I tried running the CDs through HDMI out from my 751BD, rather than RCA. I could not really hear any significant difference. I expected to, since the Wolfson DACs on the 751BD were part of the attraction - so I really wanted it to sound worse over HDMI.

 

It seems that the way some CDs have been mastered is not a good fit with the sound of the 83s, overall, even if the issue is tamed somewhat through re-orienting the speakers.

 

Thanks, one and all, for your input and advice!

[Kent T]

In short, Klipsch speakers are as good as the source components, the music sources you feed them, and the room and setup. They are extremely revealing of any shortcomings in the above items. Good recordings sound good, great recordings sound great, bad recordings sound bad. Garbage in, Garbage Out. 

[Quiet_Hollow]

Maybe, one day, I will get a new AVR with XT32 to see whether I like it for music.

Get one with a digitally driven amplifier section first...then look for DSP.

 

For digital source material, class A/B amplifier topology, even with noise shaping, was superseded way back in 1997.

 

The manufacturers are still playing any buyers that are in the dark about this. 

[Mallette]

Mercilessly transparent.  I suppose it is a bit disappointing to get to the summit of loudspeaker performance only to find the majority of the recorded material is crap.

 

How many times have we seen it and helped a newbie to Klipsch through the denial, rage, acceptance...then the joy of knowing their speakers represent

 

TRVTH.

 

Dave

[Chris A]

[The better Klipsch loudspeakers are]...mercilessly transparent. I suppose it is a bit disappointing to get to the summit of loudspeaker performance only to find the majority of the recorded material is crap. How many times have we seen it and helped a newbie to Klipsch through the denial, rage, acceptance...then the joy of knowing their speakers represent [what's really on those music tracks]

 

What I don't understand is why anyone here would want to feel obliged to defend those people (in the music recording industry) that have managed to create their own culture to defend their (really terrible) practices, unless they presently enjoy direct financial gains from employing those practices. 

Edited October 12, 2014 by Chris A

[garyrc]

I think Audyssey works fantastically well for movies, not so well for music.

 

With my set-up, music (classical, modern orchestral, jazz, a little pop) Audyssey XT sounds best with about 6 dB bass boost (with the real tone controls, not with the virtual sliders that turn Audyssey OFF -- make sure the Audyssey indicator light is still on).  With XT and the boost the music usually does sound better, better than without Audyssey, and better than with Audyssey DEQ, which tends to sound glumpy on my system.  Movies seem to be mixed with more bass (and better bass balance) than my music-only disks.  This could be because many of my music disks were originally recorded to be put on stereo Lps, and they had to roll off the deep bass to make the music fit on the record, or because Blu-ray is a great recording medium, or because _____, ______ or _______.

[garyrc]

 

[The better Klipsch loudspeakers are]...mercilessly transparent. I suppose it is a bit disappointing to get to the summit of loudspeaker performance only to find the majority of the recorded material is crap. How many times have we seen it and helped a newbie to Klipsch through the denial, rage, acceptance...then the joy of knowing their speakers represent [what's really on those music tracks]

 

What I don't understand is why anyone here would want to feel obliged to defend those people (in the music recording industry) that have managed to create their own culture to defend their (really terrible) practices, unless they presently enjoy direct financial gains from employing those practices. 

 

 

What I don't understand is how the producers, recordists and artists can stand to play most of their own products at home.