tube fanatic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Since we have all had so much fun with Cardas' room, I'm posting this as an interesting contrast! I don't note any cable trestles, so I guess this system can't possibly sound good!!! Check out those amps though- if I had the financial means that's the kind of stuff I'd start designing and building myself. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/maroom.htm Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Those amps by Paul Weitzel are built by Tube Research Labs. They make some killer stuff. I had a TRL modified Sony DVD player a few years ago, and it killed some much more expensive disc spinners for two channel music (it's only function as the video was intentionally disabled). Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Since we have all had so much fun with Cardas' room, I'm posting this as an interesting contrast! I don't note any cable trestles, so I guess this system can't possibly sound good!!! Check out those amps though- if I had the financial means that's the kind of stuff I'd start designing and building myself. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/maroom.htm Maynard I have always said that 90% of the sound "character" heard is the ROOM, since at 10 feet away, 90% of the sound IS the reverberant field. the room has, historically been the most ignored component, especially by those who use direct radiators. Obviously this guy is not ignoring anything. Any good speaker would sound good in that room. I would vote for 3 way Jubilees with active networks and tapped horn subs, which would stomp those crappy little 3-way direct radiators. This is why I'm an Audyssey XT/32 fan, it fixes a lot of stuff without severe architectural modification. It cracks me up how much money people will spend on amplifier POWER for $20,000, 88 db/watt speakers vs. 108 db/watt horns that would do the job with 25 db LESS modulation distortion, since they would need only 8 watts instead of 800. Let's not even mention dynamics and TRANSIENT response, which is one of the main factors for realism and why we love horns. These people are simply putting money in the wrong place. So for those who go for "best bang for the buck," this ain't it! I don't care if the small woofers and midranges are made of aluminum, ceramic, paper, banana peels, plastic, or hemp, they are still inefficient, high distortion, "air pushers." Same goes for "diamond tweeters." PUHLEASE! It's been proven that for low distortion "air pushers" you need large drivers, or LOTS of little ones (think Maggies and Martin Logans). Air "squeezers" like horns, waveguides, and Heil Air Motion Transformers, do a better job AND give you controlled, uniform polar response above 300 Hz. whre it counts. This is a culmination of what we have learned since the 60's. Yet people still buy expensive 3 and 4-way direct radiators. My studio is 200 feet from the SALK speaker factory, where they hand build the most beautiful speakers I've ever seen and sell them strictly on line. As long as there are "audiophile" shows for the rich followers of Audio Prose in "High End" magazines, DR speakers will prevail. ALL of the are better than BOSE, however. To each their own. Edited October 17, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It cracks me up how much money people will spend on amplifier POWER for 88 db/watt speakers vs. 108 db/watt horns that would do the job with 25 db LESS modulation distortion, since they would need only 8 watts instead of 800. They are simply putting money in the wrong place. So for those who go for "best bang for the buck," this ain't it! That's easily explained. Not everyone wants 108db horns, no matter how you or I or anyone else feels about their virtues. That's why there are direct radiators, planar magnetics, electrostatics, etc. If everyone listened to the same speakers, imagine how boring that would be. So no, Winston Ma's setup would not be considered "bang for the buck" on any level. But I bet it sounds damn good....... Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Aint no fun unless you can pizz off the neighbors! After two years of buyin, swapping, road trips, and finely tuning, i dont give a Rats Azz what anyone system ends up looking like. Whatever quipts your gizzard i guess, if i have his kind of funding, yep mine would look a tad different too. But the sound would be dam near the same (in our ears) and besides im meeting neighbors from the next block over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Aint no fun unless you can pizz off the neighbors! After two years of buyin, swapping, road trips, and finely tuning, i dont give a Rats Azz what anyone system ends up looking like. Whatever quipts your gizzard i guess, if i have his kind of funding, yep mine would look a tad different too. But the sound would be dam near the same (in our ears) and besides im meeting neighbors from the next block over. I don't see hair standing big dynamics coming from those speakers. They may sound fantastic at tea party levels, but impact, shear realism....might as well hook up the old set of Advents from the 80's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I don't see hair standing big dynamics coming from those speakers. They may sound fantastic at tea party levels, but impact, shear realism....might as well hook up the old set of Advents from the 80's. You have some listening experience with Avalon Eidolons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yeah, my room looks just like that, slightly different rug but otherwise it's just like that....in my dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You have some listening experience with Avalon Eidolons? I'm betting the answer is "No"....... Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You're right, I don't need to. But do tell, what's so magical about them? They are just another flavor of every other overpriced "uber clone" out there. Better yet, think of what you could actually build for $20K+ Avalon Eidolon Vision - MSRP 23,950/pairTweeter – Accuton 1” C12 Ceramic Dome – approximately $190Midrange – Accuton 3.5” C90 Ceramic – approximately $280Woofer – Eton 11” Hexacone – approximately $275Total cost of drivers per pair = $1490 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) In this hobby, I have learned not to dismiss anything unless I can hear it for myself. This is not to say that inexpensive speakers can't or don't sound good. But sometimes there's a valid reason why people spend more. And if I don't agree with it or can't afford it, it doesn't change a thing....... Shakey Edited October 17, 2014 by Shakeydeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 One doesn't need to have direct experience w/ a speaker to know that direct radiators have much lower dynamic limits than horns. It's physics, not conjecture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) One doesn't need to have direct experience w/ a speaker to know that direct radiators have much lower dynamic limits than horns. It's physics, not conjecture. Indeed, and I don't disagree. But to say they are only good for "tea party levels" and compare them to old Advents is just ridiculous. Shakey Edited October 17, 2014 by Shakeydeal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I don't have any background at all with Avalons or TRL amps. I would, however, love to hear the speakers and amps of my choice in that room. I'd bet that more thought and $ per square foot went into its design than goes into most symphony halls. Impressive from that perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It is a nice looking room, a lot neater than mine. I guess I am too much of a horn guy. The first thing I saw was those massive amps in the corners where the speakers belong. Those things must be great fun picking up off the floor. Forklift maybe? Edited October 17, 2014 by tromprof 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Keep in mind that interview was 12 years ago. If he is anything like me, all that stuff has been replaced at least three times. Shakey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Any good speaker would sound good in that room. Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) ... But do tell, what's so magical about them?.... Tweeter – Accuton 1” C12 Ceramic Dome – approximately $190 Midrange – Accuton 3.5” C90 Ceramic – approximately $280 Woofer – Eton 11” Hexacone – approximately $275 Total cost of drivers per pair = $1490 Make me a pair and I'll give them a listen. Oh, rosewood would be nice so it matches my Heresys. Edited October 17, 2014 by russ69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Great room. No weenie dogs either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 ... But do tell, what's so magical about them?.... Tweeter – Accuton 1” C12 Ceramic Dome – approximately $190 Midrange – Accuton 3.5” C90 Ceramic – approximately $280 Woofer – Eton 11” Hexacone – approximately $275 Total cost of drivers per pair = $1490 Make me a pair and I'll give them a listen. Oh, rosewood would be nice so it matches my Heresys. They're on their way. Just close your eyes and you will never hear the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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