derrickdj1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 It is interesting that in my system I use DSP/EQ with my avr and also NO EQ with my tube amp. Both amps are connected to the same pair of speakers for comparison. I have had it this way for some time and after more than a year, I can't say one is better than the other. They are slightly different and both enjoyable. The speaker have to run full range on the tube amp and are set to small with the avr which use multiple subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Preserve the original content like it was intended, just correct your listening room..... panels and traps work! In theory I agree, but sometimes it is just simpler(more practical) to EQ with tone controls, manual equalizers, or EQ software. Many on this forum must deal with the WAF, me included to a small degree, and that suggested form of decorating may not be tolerated by the queen. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Preserve the original content like it was intended, just correct your listening room..... panels and traps work! In theory I agree, but sometimes it is just simpler(more practical) to EQ with tone controls, manual equalizers, or EQ software. Many on this forum must deal with the WAF, me included to a small degree, and that suggested form of decorating may not be tolerated by the queen. Bill WAF is a choice, and not a good one either, tolerance and complacency are exactly what has made this country what it is today from what it was when we were kids! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 WAF is a choice, and not a good one either Of course it's a good choice if it keeps the peace in the household. complacency are exactly what has made this country what it is today from what it was when we were kids! With that I must agree. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Let's deal with real science, not troll bait. Tube amps sound different than SS because tubes have a mathematically different TRANSFER FUNCTION than transistors, which creates a physically different distortion signature. And anyone can confirm that independently in 30 minutes with a curve tracer. Tube power amps use transconductance devices in a current delivery circuit. Here's a solid state amplifier that uses transconductance devices in a current delivery circuit: http://www.firstwatt.com/f1.html This product uses MOSFETs in the output stage, which have a similar operating curve to pentodes, which are commonly used in power amplifier output stages: Edited January 20, 2015 by Don Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresso Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 i want to say this - and this is my experince - i am no expert with EQ - they are not easy to dial in - the avg. user - now its really comes down to your ear and how it sounds to you -- and i bet in 99% of cases - when you get it right - by what i mean is when you feel its just right for you - i would bet if its checked and on paper i bet it would show that its all off and not correct - but lets forget about paper for a moment - and go back to how it sounds to your ears - if it sounds good - thats all that matters - hard to say what it should be - or flat - or this or that - the human ear dosnt hear things flat - its all over the place also - take into account - most of use are deaf by now but what i wanted to say is - i had a nice EQ DBX 1215 model i think - - and i loved it for a while - but i noticed that i was always changing something - adjusting etc, adding gain - taking it off - - i added room treatment - that helped - but also after all this time - my speakers finally broke in - and they sounded better even with out the EQ - and then i started adjusting again - for me it started to become more of a problem to use the EQ manually - at one point - i did have it where i was ok with it - but then i found this other item - Aphex Exciter - http://www.aphex.com/products/exciter/ and ever since i got it - i removed the EQ - added this and it was soo much easier to made minor adjustments with gave hugh results - i know its not an EQ - and thats why i liked it even more - its much quieter than most EQs - it has knobs which are easy to adjust instead of sliders - with an EQ - you end up making more adjustments that you really need - since you have so many more Feq. ranges - but many times - you end up making it worse - all i know for me in my system - the exciter is all i need - and you can by pass it also - i like the EQ i have - but i took it out of my system in favor of the Exciter and never put it back since - a friend heard it and seen how it works etc, - he went out and got two of them - to add to his systems - he has 4 systems - and 4 sets of speakers - one pair for each system - he also has an EQ in two of them - and the Exciter in the other two - its just a different sound - easy to adjust and just minor adjustments make a huge difference many times - i am still not sure why it seems as if no one knows about this exciter ? i mean i havnt heard of it before spoken almost anyway - i happen to find it and decided to try it - turned out to be the best item to tune my system with - i know most people dont like adding things to there sound - but in the real world - everything affects the sound - and its almost never just right out of the box - this is just my opinion - i am no expert - just my ears - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Aural exciters have been around since the late 70s-early 80s and have some, well, let's just say unusual properties: http://www.audmax.hu/termekek/aphex/204/APHEX_AES_reprint_Chalupper.pdf. Back then, the price of these units (rented units-not bought) was very high. James Taylor, Jackson Browne and many other big popular music acts used Aphex Aural Exciters with their albums of this period. They are meant to be used on vocal (i.e., not instrumental) tracks. Personally, I tire fairly quickly of hearing the searing overtones (like using a high-THD amplifier), the breakup of consonant transients, and the resulting overall opaqueness when listened to critically at higher SPL using these devices. But many popular recording artists of that period thought that they sold records and used them a great deal back then. I prefer less harmonic distortion reproduction. YMMV. Also since you bring up the subject: I do recommend listening to a stereo or more importantly, surround 5.1 system with each channel carefully EQed flat within a couple of dB of so from ~300 Hz to ~8kHz. The results I find to be spectacular. Once you get close, the effect of "naturalness" of the system suddenly appears in my experience. Greg Oshiro (a noted audio design engineer that sometimes visits the forums) was right in his remarks. Try it. Chris Edited January 23, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Let me say that I was never one for using an Eq of any kind. Then I decided to work on the acoustic's in my room, to do this an Eq is needed. First a quality Parametric Eq is needed not a Graphic Eq. What I mean by quality is not a cheap noisy one it must be quiet!!! Then you have to have a basic understanding of how and Eq works and what it's purpose is. Then you must have goals in mind and not just try things wildly because that is a long road to know where!!! You use the Eq to achieve the goals you have and only that, that is what will keep you from trying to do things that are a waste of time and effort. Read learn and enjoy it are don't start it, I know others here will disagree with using an Eq and that's fine I was one of them; but depending on your goals one may be needed. Quick example, I have highly modded Khorns in a smallish room and listen at about 85-90db I never heard the need for a sub in my system but; the measurements showed the need for a sub and now I have two of them for better balance and smoothing!!! (Note) I use pro audio Eq's in my system one for the subs and one for the mains... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresso Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 i agree - the EQ is a nice unit to help adjust - you really do need to know what your doing - i am not an expert with EQ or any other sound processing etc, - its all by ear - if it sounds good to you - then leave it alone or move on to the next Feq. etc. when i did have the EQ in my rack - i start flat with the sliders - straight across and work my way - in my case the lower end of the Feq range worked best when i went down below flat and and worked my way up just a bit at a time about the exciter - to me it does a nice job - i can easily make adjustments - and my goal was to get the vocals out there more - mids and highs - and tame the bottom end - which it seems to be doing well - now i am sure if someone with more knowledge of EQ's and really knowing how to adjust them - i may just like it - its not that i dont like the EQ - i just found the exciter easier to use and got the results which sound great to my ears - thats all - i still have the EQ in my closet - i may add it again one day who knows - but i havnt touched it since i removed it - at least 3 or 4 years now - the exciter can be over adjusted - and you may not like the results then - its very minor changes - small - but when used and playing at higher levels - you can hear it - the minor small effect it does - where at low volumes - its very hard to hear - sometimes almost like it does nothing - you get adjusted and after some time - you the person will hear even at low volumes - someone else may not - its just an option - something else to play with - thats different than an EQ - - thats all - it dosnt replace one if thats the goal to EQ the whole setup with each Feg. - i like my system flat - direct - no processing at times - then i use it in stereo mode with the EQ from the setup i run - EMO pre amp - that sounds good also with and with out the exciter - its all different - keeps me active and enjoying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresso Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 during the winter months - you need to do something i am going to add new x overs - tweeters and Mid Ti tonight - i am crossing my fingers - when thats done - i will use it with out the exciter in the mix - i want to hear it with no processing - i will run the setup again to let it make its own adjustments and line level etc, - i have no sub in the mix any more - so if i want to use the EMO Q setup settings - i just keep it in stereo mode - and if i dont want to - i keep it direct mode - exciter by passed - i have no idea what i will get after its done - sometimes you expect too much and get disappointed - i been reading good and bad from using the Mid Ti - but being that i am adjusting for the mids vocals and highs now - i may get what i like out of it with out the exciter in the mix - i will give it alot of time to break in - and i am sure at some point - i will try the exciter also and see what that can do for me after its all done - i may not need it - but i may just want it - some adjustment here and there maybe - its a shame to have it and not use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I've had 'middle of the road' EQ's in the past as well as one of those BBE Sonic Maximizers. The ability to shape the sound the way I wanted to hear it appealed to me....still does but all those units had me constantly fiddling around trying to get the sound right. It's fun at first but after awhile I would realize that the all the damn thing was doing was degrading the system no matter how hard I tried to justify it. Of course, I never had anything high-end so the results very well may have been different in that regard. I changed my tune when I implemented a digital EQ into the system a year ago. I set it the way I wanted it when I first got it and basically haven't changed much since. I couple minor adjustments but that's it. I love this thing. It adds NO noise whatsoever and is smooth with great sound quality. EQing in the digital domain has worked great for me....can't imagine going without it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresso Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Nice - i had that sonic maximzer also - BBE - i do like EQ's - i dont think the one i had was too bad in terms of noise - i had DBX model - i just found the Exciter to be easier for me to get the results i wanted and is virtually silent - no noise at all introduced - at least none that i can hear - what kind of digital EQ did you get and use ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) twistedcrankcammer, on 18 Jan 2015 - 2:03 PM, said :tolerance and complacency are exactly what has made this country what it is today from what it was when we were kids! OK. I have to ask. What was it like when you were a kid? And when exactly was that? And what does that have to do with equalizers? Or do you mean tolerating a wife? Edited January 24, 2015 by oldtimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I use eq's in my system and it sounds fine. Everyone hears differently and knows what sounds good to them. As far as WAF factor. My wife has to accept what I bring into the house for entertainment because I'm the boss when it comes to the electronics we use. If she needs to decorate around them, she gets to do that. She decorates and I supply the entertainment, mostly fully clothed. Edited January 25, 2015 by rebuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You mean you don't even have to take your clothes off for her to laugh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) what kind of digital EQ did you get and use ? The Behringer DEQ 2496. Behringer has a reputation...and well, this is one of the exceptions. When I was researching this piece, one thing that was largely agreed upon was that it has excellent sound quality. I can totally confirm that. http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx Edited January 25, 2015 by SWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresso Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 nice - looks cool - i am sure if you know how to use it - you can get a nice sound from it - the problem i always had - is i am not an expert to making all those small adjustments sometimes - seems like a harder learning curve and easy to mess it up - if i ever think of putting an EQ back in my rack one day - maybe i look into it something different - when i read about all those features - i get worried - i havnt a clue - i mean a simple EQ with sliders - easy to use - but still not easy to get just right - maybe one day i give it a go if i ever feel i need it now - years back when i first started to build my rack - i had bare walls - etc, - and was having a hard time getting it to sound right - which i then tried that BBE sonice maximzer - not sure what that did excatly but didnt fix my issues to my ears - so that was out - i then went to EQ DBX - was nice - i liked the larger model with larger sliders - had gain knobs etc, - that did make a difference - again its up to the user to make the correct adjustments - so the unit was fine - it was me who kept playing around with it - for one reason or another i felt i had to make adjustments every so often - and what i did realize also is - no matter what - when you get your system just right - its then the music you choose to listen too which makes the difference - sometimes its great on jazz or classical - or blues - and then you listen to some old priest albums - they great - but the sound is not the same and makes you feel its lacking somewhere etc, - or what ever you listen too - its never great for all types of music and quality also - if my system sounds good to me across all kinds of the music i listen too 90 % of the times - i consider that great - and deal with the 10% of the times that you run into a track or album that is not as good quality - what i enjoy when i want to hear nice sounding album - i go to King Crimson - Lizard album remastered - great album if you like King Crimson - as of late i been more on the Saxophone - jazz - vocals - of the older days - i find the horns on the forte II brings it to a new level - now with some heavy material - i havnt played much on the forte yet - besides some Zeppelin -- i am sure it will sound just as good on them but with heavy music - most of those bands dont really record clean quality albums - so can be too harsh sometimes i guess i can give it a try when in the mood - some godsmack and megadeth - see how that works out - i have to be in the mood for that now - as opposed to when i listened to that 90% of the times - i guess getting Old i dont think my neighbors think that just yet - i am sure they can hear me - i try to keep it short periods - but i need my fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 what kind of digital EQ did you get and use ? The Behringer DEQ 2496. Behringer has a reputation...and well, this is one of the exceptions. When I was researching this piece, one thing that was largely agreed upon was that it has excellent sound quality. I can totally confirm that. http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx If you are happy with the Behringer than stay with it, if you want a much better quality Eq then look on ebay for a Yamaha YDP 2006 parametric Eq. You will not regret it, nothing out there is as quiet!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you are happy with the Behringer than stay with it, if you want a much better quality Eq then look on ebay for a Yamaha YDP 2006 parametric Eq. You will not regret it, nothing out there is as quiet!!! Thanks canyonman.....I take it you had a DEQ2496 in your system before the Yamaha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No i didn't bother with it after hearing one in anothers system, plus some have problems with the power supply!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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