Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I wonder why so many people keep saying that. I see no proof that the world can't handle the population. I see lots and lots of great land, everywhere, that is waiting to be divided, settled and converted to constructive use. Fully agree with the first part. As to "constructive use" I know you are an urban lover, but for many of us "constructive use" is returning huge swaths of land to the beauty that was this planet until a century or so ago. We have infinite room to expand and it's absurd to simply continue to destroy what is, though we know now probably hardly unique, but an uncommonly marvelous jewel of creation that is this earth. While the rest of the solar system isn't in the same class of easy, it's definitely technologically practical. As much as I'd love to think otherwise, current science doesn't have anything capable of getting significant numbers of people to other earth class planets on the horizon. Fusion will allow, and almost certainly see, the construction of multi-generational starships to that end but those will not have impact on the population of earth. Dave I find beauty in the people. For that reason, to me, "constructive" use means that the land adequately serves their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Dave, just think what that will do to the DWI/DUI lawyers. Yep. I hope Travis is either within a decade of retiring or has a plan B. Open container laws will go away! If it's against the law to manually drive at all, they really can't be justified. I really suspect I have barely cracked the surface of the economic and social change that just autonomous vehicles will bring. That is why I feel so clueless about the not too distant future and think those who make any predictions based on current or historic models are completely barking up the wrong tree. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Dave, just think what that will do to the DWI/DUI lawyers. Yep. I hope Travis is either within a decade of retiring or has a plan B. Open container laws will go away! If it's against the law to manually drive at all, they really can't be justified. I really suspect I have barely cracked the surface of the economic and social change that just autonomous vehicles will bring. That is why I feel so clueless about the not too distant future and think those who make any predictions based on current or historic models are completely barking up the wrong tree. Dave Travis will be fine. He is licensed to do any kind of law. As regards other uses, don't forget unmanned cars. Why do you need to go to the store for groceries? Send the list via the net, and your car will get them for you while you work-out, watch your favorite TV program, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For that reason, to me, "constructive" use means that the land adequately serves their needs "They paved paradise and put up a parking lotWith a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spotDon't it always seem to goThat you don't know what you got 'til it's goneThey paved paradise and put up a parking lot" Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For that reason, to me, "constructive" use means that the land adequately serves their needs "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone They paved paradise and put up a parking lot" Dave I know. We have large swaths. Plenty of room for both. Let the future generations decide how they want to grow. Build up. Or build out. That's up to them. No worries on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Before we make any jump to anything we've got to shed old ideas and habits. Man has proven that he isn't likely to do that without being forced. There is normally a transformation process and depending if we recognize it and how we approach it, it could be a smooth one or it could be a bloody one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) As regards other uses, don't forget unmanned cars. We're in violent agreement here. Other than collectors and aficionado who will keep their Mustangs...but have to summon an automated carrier to get them to a place where it's legal to drive them...I don't think many people will "own" a car or truck within 20 years...maybe sooner. They'll simply be part of the infrastructure, summoned when needed, dismissed when not. It won't be just groceries, it will be all consumer goods. That first edition of Pink Floyd one of us throwbacks order will show up in a couple of days by a variety of efficient vehicle transfers and that new roll of OLED for the HT will arrive within hours. Mark was the one who initially said it here in a sig line, but there are times when I am not sure he really gets it: "Pay attention. The fundamental things are changing." Dave Edited February 13, 2015 by Mallette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think some of you are OD'ing on Tomorrowland. I get the feeling you are living in the past... Anything about the autonomous vehicle predictions you specifically have some evidence to suggest is not correct? I'd agree that my prediction from a year ago of 10 years was "gut" based, but since then general press, like the story I referenced, suggests it was about right. BTW, London is testing 4 autonomous shuttles in the central city area now. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think some of you are OD'ing on Tomorrowland. The problem with population expansion isn't land. It's food, energy, jobs, and healthcare. Not a problem. Plenty of food to go around. People will adapt to requiring less energy. This can come in 2 ways: (1) lifestyle changes, and (2) more efficient technologies which reduce demand on traditional energy sources. As regards jobs and healthcare, more people also equals more demand. More demand will call for more jobs. It will all be fine. It seems many people (not necessarily you) run around with the half-witted belief that once they disappear from the earth, it will all go to pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 it will all go to pot. Sheesh...makes me wish I could stay! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusruler Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Technology got us here and it is probably our best hope for the long-term survival of the human race. Of the many problems in the world, the elephant in the room is population. The Earth is a small fragile lifeboat in the vast sea of the Universe. That metaphorical reality was best illustrated by the incredible photos of the Earth from space. Good or bad, we're all in this together. We can't keep cramming more people into the boat. If the boat sinks, we all drown. Technology is accelerating at a tremendous pace, but not faster than the population. Even if we solve energy needs tomorrow with fusion, i.e., no need to burn fossil fuels, which would eliminate humans' contribution to global warming, and if were able to feed, clothe and house the exponentially growing population, there is not enough room in the boat. I wonder why so many people keep saying that. I see no proof that the world can't handle the population. I see lots and lots of great land, everywhere, that is waiting to be divided, settled and converted to constructive use. haven't heard the old over population term in quite a while! I agree with your statement wholeheartedly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I wonder why so many people keep saying that. I see no proof that the world can't handle the population. I see lots and lots of great land, everywhere, that is waiting to be divided, settled and converted to constructive use. That almost sounds like you see lots of farms just waiting to be converted into parking lots. You'd love our place(s), nearly 500 acres of nothing but grass. Edited February 13, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 What are you talking about, then? Society is entering a period when it's characteristics will be shaped by and eventually merge with technology. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Regarding overpopulation, from sources which are a hair more reputable than Brietbart.com, the global population growth rate is actually in decline. It's still an exponential growth rate, and I wouldn't want to be around at peak projected population of 14+B, or the following decline, but if current trends hold that's three hundred years from now. Ok, back to the music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ok, back to the music Yeah, but with all those new neighbors you'll have to turn it down. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I remember distinctly a professor once saying, "The number one social problem in the world is overpopulation." Well, "yeah," I thought... get rid of the population and that would clear up any pesky social problems. Don't worry about the population. It will take care of itself. You just might not like how this happens though. On another note... I think when you make predictions about the future and technology you need to be careful what assumptions you make about how people react, adapt to and use (or not) that technology. We shape the technology as much as it shapes us. Technology has changed at an incredible pace as of late but with us we carry the same needs and desires that our ancestors had but our efforts to fulfill those needs and desires are manifested in totally new ways. Given the degree to which the last couple of generations have used the automobile as a reflection of "who they are" as part of their public personae I do not expect this is going to completely disappear to the world of "Uber" cars. Of course it only takes a couple of generations for this to change but that public face will be somewhere. The identity of self... how technology is woven in with who you are and who you present to the world... your car, your house, (your speakers?), your job, your phone... Maybe Facebook today... something else tomorrow. For my great grandfather I wonder if it was people's barns. He was a photographer (sideline job) in the late 1800 and early 1900's and he was most often paid to come take pictures of peoples barns that had just been built. It was a great source of pride to have a nice new painted barn and capturing it with a photograph was important to them... something their grandparents wouldn't even have imagined except maybe to paint a picture. Later, he was taking pictures of people in their new cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Society is entering a period when it's characteristics will be shaped by and eventually merge with technology. Dave Not new... it always has been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Don't worry nature has a way of putting things back in balance, one good pandemic and the scourge of Homo Sapiens is solved. If that fails to materialize we will probably have bombed our selves into oblivion by then anyway....See there is hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Given the degree to which the last couple of generations have used the automobile as a reflection of "who they are" as part of their public personae I do not expect this is going to completely disappear to the world of "Uber" cars It isn't a matter of choice. Allowing humans to "control" a motor vehicle on a public roadway is socially totally irresponsible and will be criminalized as soon as there is an alternative. Like Mark, you are looking with eyes from the past. Just because you get a thrill from the gas pedal and steering wheel in no way entitles you to endanger others and few are going to support those who consider the 38,000 deaths, a million injuries and disablement, the billions and billions in costs of those things justifiable for ego purposes when technology reduces those numbers to functional equality with airline accidents. This isn't Buck Rogers stuff. The Google car, bugs and all, is already far beyond the best "safety" a human can provide. In fact, the only accident with the current iteration was when a human grabbed the controls... Dave Edited February 13, 2015 by Mallette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Sure its a choice... as a society and individuals needs and passions are pursued (with whatever acceptance of risk). I'm not arguing against your vision of transportation necessarily... just how it might be manifested and fit into our culture. Of course, given a large enough economic problem this future might be delayed a bit. Actually, I'm fine with all that you describe but I WANT MY HOVER CAR!!! October 21, 2015 will be here soon Edited February 13, 2015 by muel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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