tube fanatic Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Another downside of Obamacare is that California residents may soon subjected to inferior care by under-trained individuals. A bill has already passed the California Senate which would allow optometrists, with minimal additional training (50 hours), to administer some injectables (3 vaccines), perform laser procedures to treat glaucoma (a very critical surgery which must be done correctly if severe, sight threatening, complications are to be avoided), and perform minor surgical procedures. This is frightening! Firstly, why should vaccines be administered by practitioners who are not physicians licensed to offer any kind of medical care? Secondly, how can practitoners who are not sufficiently trained in systemic medicine, and who cannot treat systemic conditions, be allowed to administer vaccines which can cause serious, and potentially life threatening, reactions in some individuals? If it were April 1st, I'd think this is a joke:http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/PHY-316975/CA-Senate-OKs-Expanded-ScopeofPractice-Bill-for-Optometrists.htmlContrast this absurdity with the hospital based training which ophthalmologists must receive over and above medical school and a general residency:http://ophthalmology.stanford.edu/education/residency_program.htmlSorry for the rant, but I know many optometrists through my optical repair work and I wouldn't let 95% of them even do an eye exam on me, let alone treat a medical condition!Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What's the old saying? You only have one pair of eyes? Please all, keep this on topic and non political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Washington residents beware of inferior legal services. Same premise in mind. So goes the world. http://www.wsba.org/licensing-and-lawyer-conduct/limited-licenses/legal-technicians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Cheap is certainly the name of the game across the board, now more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Maynard though I dont live In Ca. I have seen the left coast as the start of many a program and I appreciate the heads up, will certainly be watching for new standards in my neck o the woods Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Jeff are you an Att. in Texas ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Jeff are you an Att. in Texas ?? Yes, at least they say I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Maynard though I dont live In Ca. I have seen the left coast as the start of many a program and I appreciate the heads up, will certainly be watching for new standards in my neck o the woods Joe I'm pretty sure Maynard lives in N.J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Firstly, why should vaccines be administered by practitioners who are not physicians licensed to offer any kind of medical care? Secondly, how can practitoners who are not sufficiently trained in systemic medicine, and who cannot treat systemic conditions, be allowed to administer vaccines which can cause serious, and potentially life threatening, reactions in some individuals? Washington residents beware of inferior legal services. Same premise in mind. So goes the world. http://www.wsba.org/licensing-and-lawyer-conduct/limited-licenses/legal-technicians The article does state "50 hours of post-doctoral education and training on human patients." I'm sure they aren't just letting anyone in for post-doctoral education. Interesting, training on human patients, any volunteers? However, in thinking about the question, maybe to give Jeff's inferior legal services work in organizing class action law suits? From another perspective, when I found out my doctor graduated in the bottom half of his class, I now tell people, "you should see my doctor, he's the worst." I know, I better keep my day job given that I'll never make it doing stand-up. Seriously though, I'm not sure of all the states that allow it; however, every fall when I pass through Ohio I stop at CVS for my flu shot. Of course, only the CVS stores with immunization-trained pharmacists, nurse practitioners or physician assistants can give the flu shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 5, 2015 Another downside of Obamacare is that California residents may soon subjected to inferior care by under-trained individuals. A bill has already passed the California Senate which would allow optometrists, with minimal additional training (50 hours), to administer some injectables (3 vaccines), perform laser procedures to treat glaucoma (a very critical surgery which must be done correctly if severe, sight threatening, complications are to be avoided), and perform minor surgical procedures. This is frightening! Firstly, why should vaccines be administered by practitioners who are not physicians licensed to offer any kind of medical care? Secondly, how can practitoners who are not sufficiently trained in systemic medicine, and who cannot treat systemic conditions, be allowed to administer vaccines which can cause serious, and potentially life threatening, reactions in some individuals? If it were April 1st, I'd think this is a joke: http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/content/PHY-316975/CA-Senate-OKs-Expanded-ScopeofPractice-Bill-for-Optometrists.html Contrast this absurdity with the hospital based training which ophthalmologists must receive over and above medical school and a general residency: http://ophthalmology.stanford.edu/education/residency_program.html Sorry for the rant, but I know many optometrists through my optical repair work and I wouldn't let 95% of them even do an eye exam on me, let alone treat a medical condition! Maynard You are apparently way behind the times of terms of where medical care is going in the US that predates the ACA by a decade. Look up Physican's Assistant and Nurse Practitioner and get yourself up to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 5, 2015 It is about money, and fights between care providers, like it had been since the AMA was created. http://calwatchdog.com/2013/06/17/sen-hernandez-authors-bills-to-benefit-his-optometry-business/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is about money, and fights between care providers, like it had been since the AMA was created. http://calwatchdog.com/2013/06/17/sen-hernandez-authors-bills-to-benefit-his-optometry-business/ Could not agree more! Hay I think I will go spin " Dark Side of The Moon" They speak of the Money. Cornman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Please all, keep this on topic and non political. Too late! The first four words of the first sentence of the original post were political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 There's no doubt that the ACA will completely alter the complexion of healthcare services in America and the results will be neither cheaper nor better nor more accessible. The hardest pill to swallow will be for those who once could afford health reasonable insurance. They will be paying a lot more for a lot less, and it will likely get worse each successive year because the workers have been saddled with the costs and there are no limits as to where those will go. Already many household have house and car payment sized premiums. This is a real anchor on the dynamics of our economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 We here in California thank you for making everyone aware of yet another service, on the long list of inferior services rampent through out the state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Travis, my thinking has nothing to do with being behind the times. Rather, it's a matter of wanting to have the best outcome for a medical situation. Say you develop glaucoma and your local optometrist attempts to control it with drops (the usual method). As sometimes is the case, it doesn't work out so he recommends a laser procedure. Having only performed this 4 times in his entire career he isn't overly skilled in doing the procedure, botches things, and then refers you to an ophthalmologist who has to surgically repair the damage. Your vision is now compromised from all of the trauma to the eye. Take the better scenario of having seen an ophthalmologist in the first place. Drops didn't work and the laser procedure was recommended. During his residency he performed this procedure a couple of hundred times and then, after starting in practice, does the procedure a dozen times per week. At the time he does yours he has 2000 procedures under his belt. See my drift? I would never accept care from a NP or PA, and their training is far greater than a mere 50 hours of "post-graduate" training. It's all a matter of one's comfort level. The bottom line is that the training an optometrist receives pales in comparison with that of an ophthalmologist. Receiving medical care from a person who can only provide limited care, as opposed to someone who can use all of the tools, makes no sense. It would be like allowing a LLLT, which was mentioned above, to represent a murderer in court (at least they can't go to court according to the link). Now it's time to head out to work at an ophthalmology practice at which I will encounter the usual assortment of patients referred by local optometrists who tried to effect a cure and failed in their efforts. Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Travis, my thinking has nothing to do with being behind the times. Rather, it's a matter of wanting to have the best outcome for a medical situation. Say you develop glaucoma and your local optometrist attempts to control it with drops (the usual method). As sometimes is the case, it doesn't work out so he recommends a laser procedure. Having only performed this 4 times in his entire career he isn't overly skilled in doing the procedure, botches things, and then refers you to an ophthalmologist who has to surgically repair the damage. Your vision is now compromised from all of the trauma to the eye. Take the better scenario of having seen an ophthalmologist in the first place. Drops didn't work and the laser procedure was recommended. During his residency he performed this procedure a couple of hundred times and then, after starting in practice, does the procedure a dozen times per week. At the time he does yours he has 2000 procedures under his belt. See my drift? I would never accept care from a NP or PA, and their training is far greater than a mere 50 hours of "post-graduate" training. It's all a matter of one's comfort level. The bottom line is that the training an optometrist receives pales in comparison with that of an ophthalmologist. Receiving medical care from a person who can only provide limited care, as opposed to someone who can use all of the tools, makes no sense. It would be like allowing a LLLT, which was mentioned above, to represent a murderer in court (at least they can't go to court according to the link). Now it's time to head out to work at an ophthalmology practice at which I will encounter the usual assortment of patients referred by local optometrists who tried to effect a cure and failed in their efforts. Maynard From a strictly financial perspective, it looks like you guys ought to profit more from fixing botched jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I don't get it....doesn't every doctor ultimately have their first patient of all time? Shouldn't the focus be on what constitutes sufficient training? What if we were already requiring too much? The increase in mistakes was certainly part of the analysis. How many more people are getting treated that couldn't previously afford it? Shouldn't that weigh into the analysis too? I'm not saying I'm behind the changes, but the anecdotal fear mongering is not representative of responsible citizenship. We used to be a nation known for making great compromises. Why do we now see compromise as the enemy? Also, don't forget you are free to choose your doctors. You don't have to go with the rookie fresh out of school. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Also, don't forget you are free to choose your doctors. You don't have to go with the rookie fresh out of school. "You can keep your doctor." Where have we heard that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) I have no idea....I don't keep up with the media on these issues. Watching CSPAN is far more informative. They actually talk about these things in quantifiable terms...it's all still guessing at the end of the day, but the fact remains that ideal healthcare for everyone is too expensive within our capitalist structure. Edited June 6, 2015 by DrWho 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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