Zen Traveler Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Seems like the ones you try to help out are the very ones that burn you. Through the years we have learned to not be bitter about it, but to be more selective in "how" we help others out. Yep...I've been in small business for decades and it is amazing how people view the relationship....Some go overboard in one direction, while others surprise you by not respecting your partnership in transactions while obtaining services. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2015 What is the Gross Weight of the, over 4,000 lbs? Have you given them an MOC or Bill of sale? You may have better remedies with the DMV of the home state of the buyer. What is the home state of the buyer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 What is the Gross Weight of the, over 4,000 lbs? Have you given them an MOC or Bill of sale? You may have better remedies with the DMV of the home state of the buyer. What is the home state of the buyer? 7,000 pounds. They get a manufacturers statement of origin and a bill of sale. They're in Ohio. I'll see what our county attorney says, my wife is friends with him. Was about to file it in the county where it got picked up in Missouri but they were dealing with me and I'm in Kentucky, my bank is in Kentucky, seems like it should be Kentucky, but they picked it up and wrote the check in Missouri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 The other thing that sucks is that when you say "cash only", lots of buyers take that to mean it's a shady business and I'm probably going to rip them off. People don't understand how much card fees are either, when you are in a mostly cash based business but only occasionally take cards for high dollar amounts, the fees will get you. When you're in a high volume low markup business, that can sometimes mean the card company gets half of my cut. So, I try to lean towards checks if they have a problem with cash. Even if it verifies, there's nothing stopping them from getting halfway home and putting a stop payment on it, which has happened before. I don't know what the answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't know what the answer is. Certified or Cashiers check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2015 Well this doesn't do you any good now, but never give an MOC before the check clears, it is only way they can title it in most states. I wasn't suggesting you fight it out in Ohio courts. But if you can cloud the title, or prevent the registration of the trailers with a phone call to Ohio DMV you should explore that riute, it might get you paid the quickest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I don't know what the answer is. Certified or Cashiers check. They can also fake certified checks and cashiers checks. Best and safest way besides cash in hands would be money transfer from bank to bank. I'd do that and pay the $25.00 fee as a safe measure any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Im confused, you can PM me the short of it if you want to get it off your chest. Basically what happened is that a guy bought a couple of trailers from me, one for him and one for his dad. He gave a card for a deposit and was supposed to be sending his parents down with cash for the rest. There seemed to be lots of miscommunication on the buyers part because suddenly I've got two older, ticked off, and confused parents on my hands who don't have cash nor straps to secure them. They tried to go to a bank to get the rest but it wasn't their bank and they could only use the ATM, and came up with $1,200. Rather than send them home, I let them write a check for the rest, they said they'd just cover it for now and get their son to pay them back. At this point this circus of a transaction really isn't that far out of the norm, some people just can't follow instructions so I try to help them out rather than be a butthole. A competitor of mine who happened to be around even drove to a different city to buy them straps. So, lo and behold, that check bounced. Here's the thing though. The original buyer is unresponsive, the girl who runs their family trucking business and was going to talk to these people is now unresponsive, there's no way the parents don't know about this and they haven't contacted me, the business that one of the trailers is made out to on the paperwork angrily denies they even know any of these people even though the corporate officers listed online says differently plus it's their address on the title which they didn't seem to care about, there is no phone number for the older people and their bank won't give it to me, I can't report them as stolen at this point since technically they wrote a check, which means I can't block them at the DMV from registering them. I tried to run the original card he gave me just to find out it was a prepaid debit card and only had a small amount left on it. So basically there's two trailers of mine out there and I don't know where they're at or anything. I don't know if they are being used at this business, or they were sold to an unsuspecting buyer, or what. In the meantime I'm out $2,650 and I don't know if that is permanent or not. On Friday I got this "I'll make them famous" attitude due to the noncooperation and temporarily posted a picture of the check until an admin saw it. The check bounced, the item purchased with said check is now theft, call the police and report it as such in their state as well as your own. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Writing a bad check and receiving goods IS theft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Just read through the post....MLO I feel for a my man. It really sucks that you put yourself out there to help someone and they stick it in your a**.... I know all to well running a small business is really hard......been doing it for 17 years now. I have a great customer base...but there are some that I keep on a tight leash.....you come to pick-up your car and you forgot your check book or card....guess what, you can pick it up tomorrow after you pay me for my services.... Ya know I'm a really nice guy...I like to help people...but I got tired of chasing my money.... Then I have a bunch of customers that I will lock there keys in there car and they will drop me a check with out fail... Well best of luck to ya....take em to court.... MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) They can also fake certified checks and cashiers checks. Best and safest way besides cash in hands would be money transfer from bank to bank. I'd do that and pay the $25.00 fee as a safe measure any day of the week. I can't deny that but pay pal excepting credit cards would be cheaper and with the above you also have forgery which would get the bank involved... Edited August 10, 2015 by Zen Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Best and safest way besides cash in hands would be money transfer from bank to bank. I'd do that and pay the $25.00 fee as a safe measure any day of the week. I can't deny that but pay pal excepting credit cards would be cheaper It actually wouldn't be. Fees on a $1,750 item are about $60. People don't understand the fees associated with paypal with more expensive items. I had a $12,000 bill from them and eBay one year. eBay was $5,000 and PayPal was $7,000. I try to avoid using PayPal as much as possible just because of this. People overestimate how much PayPal protects you as well. For example they could pay you with PayPal but use American Express and you have no idea. All it takes is for them to do a charge-back. On other credit cards it goes through a mediator like an internal investigation, but with American Express, supposedly it goes through the court system, possibly in the home state of the buyer. You could get ripped off big time and your court fees for pursuing your losses would be more than the loss itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 The check bounced, the item purchased with said check is now theft, call the police and report it as such in their state as well as your own. Their home state doesn't want to hear anything about it since it happened down here. My state doesn't want to hear anything about it since it happened in Missouri. The sheriff's department in the county it happened in doesn't want to hear anything about it since it happened in the city limits. The city police doesn't want to hear anything about it because they "paid" me, it's just that the checked bounced, and therefore I can't report it as being stolen. It is a felony, but the police are lazy so they won't haul them down here to court from out of state. Even if they weren't, it is questionable as to if this is considered an extraditable felony in Ohio. Basically it's up to state law plus the personal opinion of an Ohio judge as to if they can get sent down here. Best I can hope for at this point is to turn it over to the local county attorney in Missouri. They will send out a letter saying it needs to be paid in 10 days. If that doesn't happen they file criminal charges and it gets into the FBI database. If they ever get pulled over in the future, they get sent to jail, with the bond amount being the amount they stiffed me for, in which hopefully I can get it sent to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 People overestimate how much PayPal protects you as well. For example they could pay you with PayPal but use American Express and you have no idea. All it takes is for them to do a charge-back. Okay. Admittedly we don't have any individual amount near that high, but after 2 years we have yet to have a bad experience with Paypal and they only charge us 2.8%. Insofar as AMEX is concerned, I can dig it but it is also why I as a consumer use it as my go-to card for high dollar purchases. Regardless, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2015 Im confused, you can PM me the short of it if you want to get it off your chest.Basically what happened is that a guy bought a couple of trailers from me, one for him and one for his dad. He gave a card for a deposit and was supposed to be sending his parents down with cash for the rest. There seemed to be lots of miscommunication on the buyers part because suddenly I've got two older, ticked off, and confused parents on my hands who don't have cash nor straps to secure them. They tried to go to a bank to get the rest but it wasn't their bank and they could only use the ATM, and came up with $1,200. Rather than send them home, I let them write a check for the rest, they said they'd just cover it for now and get their son to pay them back. At this point this circus of a transaction really isn't that far out of the norm, some people just can't follow instructions so I try to help them out rather than be a butthole. A competitor of mine who happened to be around even drove to a different city to buy them straps.So, lo and behold, that check bounced. Here's the thing though. The original buyer is unresponsive, the girl who runs their family trucking business and was going to talk to these people is now unresponsive, there's no way the parents don't know about this and they haven't contacted me, the business that one of the trailers is made out to on the paperwork angrily denies they even know any of these people even though the corporate officers listed online says differently plus it's their address on the title which they didn't seem to care about, there is no phone number for the older people and their bank won't give it to me, I can't report them as stolen at this point since technically they wrote a check, which means I can't block them at the DMV from registering them. I tried to run the original card he gave me just to find out it was a prepaid debit card and only had a small amount left on it. So basically there's two trailers of mine out there and I don't know where they're at or anything. I don't know if they are being used at this business, or they were sold to an unsuspecting buyer, or what. In the meantime I'm out $2,650 and I don't know if that is permanent or not. On Friday I got this "I'll make them famous" attitude due to the noncooperation and temporarily posted a picture of the check until an admin saw it. The check bounced, the item purchased with said check is now theft, call the police and report it as such in their state as well as your own. It is theft, but a specific theft, such as "theft by check" or "theft of service". In most states it gets you quick access to criminal courts on check charge, but not theft of underlying item. They won't enter it as a stolen vehicle in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Wow! What a load of BS! I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this! You would think a hot check would be a hot check and not such a complicated matter no matter what state, county or city. Hopefully, they get criminal charges and at the least you get civil remedies. Thanks for sharing here so we can learn from your experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted August 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted August 10, 2015 Writing a bad check and receiving goods IS theft. In most states it is theft by check, which is much easier to prove than theft. You do not need to prove intent or the state of mind of the check writer. In most states it is not theft of goods, which is much more difficult to prove. It most states if you call to report a stolen vehicle you will be asked if the item was taken without your knowledge or permission, and as soon as the check comes up, in most states, they will tell you it cannot be listed as stolen. You either have the right to repossession with the proper documents or a theft by check case. If it has to go so far as criminal court they can file it both under theft by check, and plain old theft, but they typically do not because with theft by check there is a statute that says they only have to prove that a check was returned, that they gave notice to make it good, and they didn't make it good. There are many more elements to prove on just "theft" such as intent and state of mind. So they typically do not charge theft, but every state is different and they can certainly charge it as a theft. In this particular case it is made more complicated by the fact that the ultimate possessor/buyer is different from the check writer/parents. There could be a theft charge against the parents, but more probably it is really conspiracy to commit theft. There for sure is a theft by check, or whatever it is called in Kentucky. Travis 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Finally got in touch with the old lady. I think she was shocked that I knew how to call all her siblings from across the state. Claims that she'll come through in the next couple of days. We'll see. If what she says is true it almost sounds like it's a case of a loser guy trying to throw his mom under the bus. I don't trust a word they say though. They're either really stupid or evil'y smart. I can't tell the difference. They claim they broke a hub too, which, who knows, they may have. Some people think they can load 10,000 pounds on a trailer that should only have half that on there then are shocked that part of the running gear would break, and somehow that's my fault. I've had people put a stop payment on a check because they got a flat tire before. Just ridiculous, as if that justifies getting a free trailer or something. Edited August 10, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 She finally paid up and just wired the money, three weeks later. My blood pressure just dropped a few dozen points. I guess it's all good. No more accepting checks for me. I guess the best news is that now I can order $2,650 worth of Klipsch stuff. That's how it works right? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hey! (says the daughter) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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