JL Sargent Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I understand what you are saying, I'm just not sure we should make things legal as it would be seen as condoning it. We are bound to one another in our society in every way and I just see a lot of bad things for us all if we become to willing to legalize drugs any further. I am conflicted on this in some ways but ultimately I just think "where does it stop" Somebody's talking out both sides of their mouths though. We look at Canada and tout their low murder rate then turn around and say stuff like this, except SO what is the profile of the mass killers? Are they all: Male Caucasian Poor Angry Drugged NRA love-spawn Educated QBox toting Societal hermits? We profiled airline passengers post 9/11, didn't we? So if it IS the drugs, or guns, or PS3s that are causing this behavior, let's cut them out. But it must first be identified. Put away your personal politics and get to the root. Was this kid not hugged enough? Was this kid not disciplined enough? Was this kid lost in school? The Von Maur shooting locally happened some 20 minutes after my sister-in-law and toddler nephew left that store. You all know of someone either directly or indirectly affected by this behavior. The word victim is not strong enough. Do we have to make it a for-profit point before something happens to stop it? One of the first in modern history was just a few houses down from me at Heath High School in west Paducah. My sister in law was actually holding hands with a girl who got popped in the head. My wife actually works with the shooter's dad. He was a good kid, grew up in an upper-middle class household, wasn't abused or neglected, violent video games weren't real popular back then so it wasn't that. Wasn't even "assault weapons", he used a squirrel hunting type of .22 rifle which is literally on NOBODY's radar. The only thing he had in common with others is that he did get picked on. What set him off as the last straw was a reaction from a girl, I think he asked a girl to the prom and she embarassed him in front of some people. So, he targeted that same girl and her friends in their prayer group in the lobby. Due to having more exposure to this case than others, I tend to shake my head with all these so called solutions. They would not have stopped Michael Carneal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm just not sure we should make things legal as it would be seen as condoning it. Making things legal may just be a perfectly reasonable response to the fact that prohibition is a failed and wildly expensive policy. You mean like murder? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The Mom said he had mental problems. The Mom exposed the murderer to firearms. The Mom should be arrested and also sued by the victim's families in civil court. Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) My initial point was lets be consistent and address all the things that take human lives, not focus on just guns. What are the stats on guns saving lives I wonder....better than abortions I bet. unwanted children are the one mistake in America it seems we can just throw away n forget....no special reports on those deaths. I am sorry for my distracting from the topic of this thread but its all related and all equal in regard to our human condition and what many politicians try to sell us. I've just been given my first granddaughter so I have been stewing lately more than normal on some things. It weakens your argument. Gun ownership and abortion are both constitutionally protected rights. If you intertwine two completely separate issues it tends to obscure whatever valid points you have concerning the discussion at hand. They cannot be compared or treated the same because different arguments apply. To accept your proposition that a termination of pregnancy be counted as a "death" or treated equally would require that one assume that it's availability is not protected under the Constitution. That is clearly not the case under current law. It requires a logical fiction. I don't see abortion as being related to mass shootings, but I could be wrong. On a more important note, congratulations on your granddaughter, she must be bringing you quite a lot of joy. I wasn't trying to equate the two constitutionally but one can certainly see it that way I suppose. I am saying many who are anti gun are pro abortion. Guns are considered by their owners to be a positive tool to discourage, protect and defend and not an instrument to kill, I cant see many instances where abortion has any positive side to it except occasionally maybe to protect the life of the mother. Its simply my take or opinion. Thanks for you're congats!!! She is a joy in our lives and we feel blessed. Edited October 5, 2015 by vindeville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 The title of the thread is "you get what you want in society" Here is what I believe to be some out of the gun debate issues that causes our rampant gun problem. 1) problem: wealth inequality has parents working multiple jobs to keep their family unit afloat Cause: Families are not together as much, less parental supervision and bonding and raising children 2) problem: education system bogs kids down with homework and the mindset that more work equates to smarter kids Cause: kids are stressed with more homework than ever, more activities like sports, dance, band, tutoring, and anything and everything to build their resume to get into college, instead of learning. This puts huge stress on kids, and they don't have time to play and learn to problem solve on their own, or build relationship skills. 3) problem: Technology. Facebook, Twitter, iPads, video games Cause: kids have their faces stuck in a screen and have no relationship skills, they either are part of the club or are an outcast. And then the outcasts are pointed out with all the social media... I think this society we've created is causing mental health issues that coupled with the easy access to human killing tools -- lets be honest, that's what guns are designed for - turns into rampant murders... Whether in a school, or on the streets. Just an idea as to something other than guns being the only issue. Still don't like guns, but I respect the 2nd amendment right to own a firearm. But it's the only amendment that has the phrase "well regulated" I think you are honing in on what makes us different. When you create a machine, that seems to create an inordinate number of young mass shooters, you rally need to examine that machinery.Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 It's hard to see how more laws is the answer. Or more guns. No, we're doing something wrong. Something in our process of moving humans from birth to adulthood is flawed. Were cranking out latent sociopaths at a abnormal rate. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMH Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes. The underlying reason is simply psychotropic drug induced insanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Edited October 5, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes. The underlying reason is simply psychotropic drug induced insanity. I do think that's a factor.Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Pictures from the last forum gathering? Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMH Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Perhaps the $330 billion psychiatric industry has something to do with this? Cui bono - Commonly the phrase is used to suggest that the person or people guilty of committing a crime may be found among those who have something to gain, chiefly with an eye toward financial gain. The party that benefits may not always be obvious or may have successfully diverted attention to a scapegoat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Don't women prefer to use POISEN ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 To accept your proposition that a termination of pregnancy be counted as a "death" or treated equally would require that one assume that it's availability is not protected under the Constitution. That is clearly not the case under current law. It requires a logical fiction. I don't see abortion as being related to mass shootings, but I could be wrong. Whoa, there! You are defending the former practice because the law protects the right to engage in it. Yet, when taking the side of gun opponents, you are arguing that it should be against the law to have guns. Wouldn't this position on guns, as you say, "require a logical fiction?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2015 The Mom said he had mental problems. The Mom exposed the murderer to firearms. The Mom should be arrested and also sued by the victim's families in civil court. Keith Really? Wouldn't that infringe on her right to bear arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 How about government funded armed security in our schools for a start. So, you'd be ok with each school having metal detectors, fenced entries, cops with guns protecting it? Do you see that as a solution? Do you see that anywhere in the world, right now? dont know about cops n fences n stuff but yeah an apropriate amount of armed security people n some id badges to get in seems right. It should not be any easier to get into a school than the DMV or a state building. I don't know what other countries do but I live in here and we have an issue recently. Crazies have figured out how easily they can attack our kids n citizens. They also see the media attantion and our president n politicians reacting to their horrible acts to use as a tool to stir the pot. They make a name for themselves this way i guess. We must then figure out whats going on with these people committing these acts. Guns are not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Really? Wouldn't that infringe on her right to bear arms? Someone should have infringed on her right to bear children. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Keep in mind, these kind of killings are unique to the USA. So, saying there is no way to prevent it misses the data. The USA is unique with thee number of these mass killing. Therefore, what's different? Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk http://www.businessinsider.com/americas-gun-problem-explained-2013-4?op=1 That spells it out pretty clearly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 5, 2015 To accept your proposition that a termination of pregnancy be counted as a "death" or treated equally would require that one assume that it's availability is not protected under the Constitution. That is clearly not the case under current law. It requires a logical fiction. I don't see abortion as being related to mass shootings, but I could be wrong. Whoa, there! You are defending the former practice because the law protects the right to engage in it. Yet, when taking the side of gun opponents, you are arguing that it should be against the law to have guns. Wouldn't this position on guns, as you say, "require a logical fiction?" I am nit dedending, nor advocating, anything. His premise was (paraphrasing) abortion is killing and it desensitizes society to the point that we have devalued all human life, including kids in school. We should therefore report these deaths. That is a moral judgement, not a logical or legal progression. His argument actually supports gun control. Ban abortion, and you end them, and save lives. Ban guns and eliminate mass shootings. I don't see either one as legally ir constitutionally possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindeville Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Actually what would be wrong with fences around our schools. They work to protect goods and places of buisiness, factories etc......why not kids. Hey, I think I found one of those rumoured shovel ready job to save the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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