Jeff Matthews Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 The logic of PR is also quite flawed. To wit: if obesity is an epidemic, and its cause is a lack of responsibility, then there should be a corresponding loss of responsibility in other areas of life, statistically for the population. Well, there is no such corresponding loss of responsibility. In fact, the opposite is true - people are more responsible today. Not so fast. People might juggle more responsibility these days, and then, again, maybe not. Either way, this has nothing to do with gluttony. Gluttony is but one of several vices. Many people choose other vices. Some have more than one. This is about vices. The suggestion to be "personally responsible" is not to suggest people are not responsible with respect to other aspects of their lives. It is to suggest that, as they do with those other aspects, they can also do with respect to the vice... , i.e., act responsibly. Tell me where you think the science comes into this?Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk I think the science is uncertain. If science could reduce addiction/compulsive behavior down to a particular genome, it would remain hard-pressed to explain how people exercise "will power" to beat it. Perhaps, then, science would attempt to reduce "will power" down to a particular genome as well... meaning, "it's all pre-determined, and there is nothing you can do about it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 THe science is much further along than that. They understand how to turn on and off the satiation switch in the brain. They know the qualities that create immense craving. The know that metabolic set points can be disturbed, and we haven't even started on the psychological components of eating. BTW, the question of loss of responsibility is not an assertion, it was measured in a trial. It's not someone guessing. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 THe science is much further along than that. They understand how to turn on and off the satiation switch in the brain. They know the qualities that create immense craving. The know that metabolic set points can be disturbed, and we haven't even started on the psychological components of eating. BTW, the question of loss of responsibility is not an assertion, it was measured in a trial. It's not someone guessing. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Then, please explain "will power," or do you believe there is no such thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. But it's not absolute, it's relatively effective depending on the temptation involved. Do you know anyone, or have you known anyone that is obese? I've known quite a few over the years. And will power is not the simple variable controlling obesity. If you are tempted to say it's all you needed, try to think more generally. Will power may work for a while, and it may be sufficient for some. But it's not the single gateway to success or failure. And many other interventions are needed, right up to the radical stomach stapling. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 anecdotal. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. But it's not absolute, it's relatively effective depending on the temptation involved. Do you know anyone, or have you known anyone that is obese? I've known quite a few over the years. And will power is not the simple variable controlling obesity. If you are tempted to say it's all you needed, try to think more generally. Will power may work for a while, and it may be sufficient for some. But it's not the single gateway to success or failure. And many other interventions are needed, right up to the radical stomach stapling. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk As I said, if you have a medical condition contributing to either weight gain or the inability to manage weight issues then it merits medical intervention. If you mean to imply that most overweight people have such problems then I would disagree. Your observations about the food industry and the lack of gov't oversight is correct, but not unusual. The same gov't allows way too much free rein to many questionable industries. The caveats remain true - it is up to the individual to make wiser choices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. But it's not absolute, it's relatively effective depending on the temptation involved. Do you know anyone, or have you known anyone that is obese? I've known quite a few over the years. And will power is not the simple variable controlling obesity. If you are tempted to say it's all you needed, try to think more generally. Will power may work for a while, and it may be sufficient for some. But it's not the single gateway to success or failure. And many other interventions are needed, right up to the radical stomach stapling. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk As I said, if you have a medical condition contributing to either weight gain or the inability to manage weight issues then it merits medical intervention. If you mean to imply that most overweight people have such problems then I would disagree. Your observations about the food industry and the lack of gov't oversight is correct, but not unusual. The same gov't allows way too much free rein to many questionable industries. The caveats remain true - it is up to the individual to make wiser choices. Well, it depend on whether you recognize genetic attributes as a "medical condition." Probably, your meaning is a DX indicating a disease or condition. But, what I see in the science is that genetic variations are significant contributors to obesity. There are dozens of genetic markers being investigated. It's not arguable that people can make choices. And my argument is not based on denying that. My argument is that the causative chain of obesity is more complicated than the old saw, "just say no!" And, science is bearing that out. The social and environmental structure promotes obesity by promoting the false idea that food is primarily an entertainment phenomenon rather than a nutrition phenomenon. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I've noticed entire families being either obese, average or thin. Is it hereditary, the kids imitating the adults, or is mom just a good cook? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Are you documenting individual cases you see, or are you referring to scientific studies and medical knowledge about obesity? Edited January 26, 2016 by jo56steph74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Mr. Matthews, This is a very well balanced explanation of will power, and obesity: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/willpower-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-weight.html Quote "It’s true that self-control is a powerful human tool, and that people with a lot of it are more likely to do better in school and work than those with comparatively little of it. But when it comes to weight loss (and gain), willpower is not actually all that powerful, argues University of Minnesota health psychologist Traci Mann in her new book, Secrets From the Eating Lab: The Science of Weight Loss, the Myth of Willpower, and Why You Should Never Diet Again. “The myth is that people who are fat have bad or weak willpower, and people who are thin have good willpower, and that’s why they’re thin,” said Mann. “The myth is that you can get thin if you have strong willpower, and you can’t get thin if you have less willpower. Basically, willpower is the thing everyone blames — it’s the first thing people think of and the first thing people toss at dieters when the weight comes back on.” Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. try exercising it, with regard to abstaining from this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Exercise can also become addictive, but no one will claim "it's glandular." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. try exercising it, with regard to abstaining from this forum. I'm pretty sure that's what all these moderators refer to as uncivil behavior. Or do you have special permission?Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Exercise can also become addictive, but no one will claim "it's glandular."Really? What's the gland responsible for endorphin rush? Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Exercise can also become addictive, but no one will claim "it's glandular."Really?What's the gland responsible for endorphin rush? Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk I figured the quotation marks would more than satisfy the need for any smiley face, at least for educated people who also have a sense of humor. I'm well versed in the pituitary gland, but feel exercise is more worthwhile than being fat in respect to "glans." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Yeah sure I believe in will power. try exercising it, with regard to abstaining from this forum. I'm pretty sure that's what all these moderators refer to as uncivil behavior. Or do you have special permission?Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Oh I'm pretty sure that I'm being quite civil, especially when compared to the epic backstage temper tantrum and exit of Mark Deneen in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've noticed entire families being either obese, average or thin. Is it hereditary, the kids imitating the adults, or is mom just a good cook? I've noticed that fat families tend to have fat pets, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Sorta like that scene from Disney's 101 Dalmatians, with the various people and their dogs walking around the park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've noticed entire families being either obese, average or thin. Is it hereditary, the kids imitating the adults, or is mom just a good cook? I've noticed that fat families tend to have fat pets, too. my snake is rather large, but my wife's kitty is fairly petite...does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Exercise can also become addictive, but no one will claim "it's glandular."Really?What's the gland responsible for endorphin rush? Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk I figured the quotation marks would more than satisfy the need for any smiley face, at least for educated people who also have a sense of humor. I'm well versed in the pituitary gland, but feel exercise is more worthwhile than being fat in respect to "glans." That's the risk of sarcasm. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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