Fjd Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The best way to ensure low noise power is to use an isolation transformer with a center tapped 120V secondary that one ties to ground for balanced power delivery. It's best to use a transformer with a 240V primary to keep the power balanced from the pole. Either that or use a UPS to power audio equipment. A simple power strip type "conditioner" is rarely sufficient to clean up the AC line. Are you sure the interference is power related? The best way to isolate the problem is to put a scope on the incoming power and look for transients. Cleaning up the power isn't going to cure airborne EMI. Can you go into more detail how to wire one of these isolation transformers as balanced? Does it require a transformer that is both 120/240VAC? I remember that about a year ago justinsweber converted this old MGE industrial ultra-isolation transformer to make it more suitable for home use. It appears that he added two medical-grade 15A plugs and an IEC input for a detachable power cord, a combination power switch/fuse, and an indicator LED. I know that it is fairly easy to find very good examples of Topaz, MGE or Xentek ultra-isolation transformers with at least 1KVA rating and even 2.4KVA (I’m not sure what the minimum rating would be needed for the typical home use since I see a lot of 500 and 750 rated too) on eBay for pennies on the dollar of the new purchase price. To me, it would seem that the very low capacitance that you find on these industrial isolation transformers would do a good job of filtering any high frequency noise from the AC mainlines from entering the audio gear. In addition, these isolation transformers would block any DC offset coming out of the wall socket, thus reducing the heat in components that DC tends to help create. Overall, it seems that with a little DIY attention, these can be a very economical solution for certain issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The History Kid Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 From what I've read...units with toroidal power wouldn't benefit the same way as units without. I don't know how true that is though (perhaps someone can chime in). I may look into that one Furman at $50. Price isn't bad, and it'd sure be bound to work better than the cheap $9 strips that I seem to keep going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The best way to ensure low noise power is to use an isolation transformer with a center tapped 120V secondary that one ties to ground for balanced power delivery. It's best to use a transformer with a 240V primary to keep the power balanced from the pole. Either that or use a UPS to power audio equipment. A simple power strip type "conditioner" is rarely sufficient to clean up the AC line. Are you sure the interference is power related? The best way to isolate the problem is to put a scope on the incoming power and look for transients. Cleaning up the power isn't going to cure airborne EM Great explanation, can these types of parameters be found in medical isolation transformers? My friend keeps wanting to cut hole in my floor and run a dedicated circuit from my circuit panel and then run a medical transformer that weights about 80 pounds...... If that is what I think it is, it should do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Anyone have any experience/thoughts on the "Panamax 5410"? I want something that is functional as well as elegant. http://www.ebay.com/itm/291672677281?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The best way to ensure low noise power is to use an isolation transformer with a center tapped 120V secondary that one ties to ground for balanced power delivery. It's best to use a transformer with a 240V primary to keep the power balanced from the pole. Either that or use a UPS to power audio equipment. A simple power strip type "conditioner" is rarely sufficient to clean up the AC line. Are you sure the interference is power related? The best way to isolate the problem is to put a scope on the incoming power and look for transients. Cleaning up the power isn't going to cure airborne EMI. Can you go into more detail how to wire one of these isolation transformers as balanced? Does it require a transformer that is both 120/240VAC? I remember that about a year ago justinsweber converted this old MGE industrial ultra-isolation transformer to make it more suitable for home use. It appears that he added two medical-grade 15A plugs and an IEC input for a detachable power cord, a combination power switch/fuse, and an indicator LED. I know that it is fairly easy to find very good examples of Topaz, MGE or Xentek ultra-isolation transformers with at least 1KVA rating and even 2.4KVA (I’m not sure what the minimum rating would be needed for the typical home use since I see a lot of 500 and 750 rated too) on eBay for pennies on the dollar of the new purchase price. To me, it would seem that the very low capacitance that you find on these industrial isolation transformers would do a good job of filtering any high frequency noise from the AC mainlines from entering the audio gear. In addition, these isolation transformers would block any DC offset coming out of the wall socket, thus reducing the heat in components that DC tends to help create. Overall, it seems that with a little DIY attention, these can be a very economical solution for certain issues. The secondary should be 120V, the primary can be 120V or 240V. Hooking to 240V keeps the power balanced from the pole all the way to the equipment. The secondary has to be center tapped with the CT hooked to the ground connection on the outlet sockets. The other two secondary wires hook to the H and N connections. With this arrangement there is no H and N. The voltages are balanced: 60-0-60 volts. This arrangement is commonly found in computer rooms, hospitals, and other medical facilities where clean power is essential. UPS units that output clean sine waves are used in some cases where backup power is also required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 use a pure sine wave AC regenerator and hear the difference. Powerinsipired makes some good AC regnerator we use here. sounds is more relax and accurate than before http://www.powerinspired.com/ag1500-ac-regenerator-1500w-psu-shucko-p-1754.html?osCsid=5b8fe885bd68ba886412b7eeb147ba14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) CECAA850, on 03 Feb 2016 - 09:06 AM, said: Are you currently having interference or noise issues? Yes, everything is plugged into a power strip/surge protector on the dedicated circuit. However, there is still interference coming. What kind of interference? RFI (broadcast signal intrusion or buzzing that changes as you walk around the room)? EMI (constant lower-pitched 60-Hz hum from, say, your service panel)? Interference is a generic term that doesn't really describe the problem for me. A big source of buzzing or humming is dimmer switches! I doubt that a power "conditioner" would help that! Be sure that your light switches with dimmers are the right type for your lights. Transformer-based track lights with wrong type of dimmer switch can insert buzzing through the house circuitry, for example. Edited February 4, 2016 by LarryC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thanks Larry, the buzzing has been eliminated by running a dedicated circuit for my amps. Looking for a conditioner with some protection as well. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 simple and cost effective??? Have no idea if these are just elaborate power strips or if they actually work? Where is a specification number that says it does what you need? Your system should already provide best protection from noise. If not, then a series mode filter is required. To filter at those frequencies means that filter must weight on the order of tens of pound. That is a series mode filter for audio frequency noise. Many are hyped as if also surge protection. They are not. Each anomaly must be defined. Its cure must be quantified with a specification number. Your concern apparently is dBs of noise at below 10 kilohertz. Other factors may be considered such as harmonics. That does not guarantee all noise problems are eliminated. Only anomalies that you had implied. For example, it says nothing about ground loops - a completely different anomaly requiring completely different solutions. But again, best eliminator of noise is supposed to already exist inside electronics. Belkin knows most will buy ineffective products on subjective words. It probably could be sold for $15 at good profit. But Belkin typically does not target informed consumers - who need numbers for every answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thanks Larry, the buzzing has been eliminated by running a dedicated circuit for my amps. Looking for a conditioner with some protection as well. Excellent. I had to do extensive and costly trial-and-error trouble shooting to solve my problem. Wish it had been that easy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 I am no closer than when I started looking... I need an affordable unit to condition my 120V line as well as offer protection to my equipment. Examples please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I need an affordable unit to condition my 120V line as well as offer protection to my equipment. It sounds like you cured your noise issue with the dedicated line. Could you get away with just something for protection? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thanks Larry, the buzzing has been eliminated by running a dedicated circuit for my amps. Looking for a conditioner with some protection as well. Matt You have removed your GROUND LOOP. Excellent! Someone mentioned a toroidial transformer eliminating brownouts. Huh? Utter nonsense. Balanced power systems are dangerous. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't use one, just be careful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I need an affordable unit to condition my 120V line as well as offer protection to my equipment. Condition from which anomaly? There is no magic box that avert all anomalies. Provided was one example used in studios when inferior power supplies inside electronics do not remove line noise. Which anomaly concerns you? Open neutral, RFI, floating ground, hum, high voltage, harmonics, sags, frequency variation, EMI/EMC? Noise from dimmer switches is best eliminated at the source. Chances are those were inferior (discounted) dimmer switches that did not avert noise as required even by FCC standards. Series mode filters (ie Surgex, Brickwall, Zerosurge) that weight tens of pounds may suppress noise that was supposed to be averted inside electronics. No magic box exists. First, the anomaly must be defined. Only then can specification numbers define a solution; define the box or wiring changes for that anomaly. First required: which anomaly is the concern? Because so many are naive (ignore specifications), then numerous power conditioners that do almost nothing are hyped for $hundreds. Hyped as if magic boxes that cure all anomalies. Where is Dr Yeti's magic elixer when we need it? Maybe he is now selling 'balanced power'? Edited February 4, 2016 by westom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevenarrow Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/surgex/ Give Dave a call. He re-builds Surgex conditioners into great hifi power conditioners. Excellent value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 It sounds like you cured your noise issue with the dedicated line. Could you get away with just something for protection? Yup, tired of searching for a non existent item. UHG!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Balanced power systems are dangerous What makes you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Edited February 5, 2016 by westom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Whole house surge suppressor and isolation transformer parts total is less than $250. One of these should do the job very cost effectively. Isolation transformer http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPFH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454686249&sr=8-1&keywords=tripp+lite+isolation+transformer Adding extra grounding rods to the house is also a good idea if you tie the rods together in a loop, also ensure the internal grounding is good inside the house. I have 3 rods on 3 sides of my house tied to the electrical box, the plumbing and the telephone and cable systems, in a ring configuration. http://www.homedepot.com/p/ERICO-5-8-in-x-8-ft-Copper-Ground-Rod-615880UPC/202195738 Add a whole house surge protector at the breaker box, or pay someone to to it, it may save your AC, heater, WD, and all of your appliances inc the TV and stereo, but you may not know it when it saves you. This one is highly rated http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-HEPD80-Electronics/dp/B00CONA1OQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454686549&sr=8-1&keywords=whole+house+surge+protector 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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