ClaudeJ1 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Bruce, What you say is true about spending other peoples money, but if they didn't want to spend it on improving their sound, they would not be here in the first place. Like everyone else here, I have an opinion, but I have built, modified, bought and sold over 100 different speakers, over the years, mostly Horns and mostly Klipsch. Subs from 8" to 18", Tuba, Tapped, 3 different Danley Subs, yada yada yada. It's all about PULLING all the sound that's laid down on Blue Ray Movies, Concerts, Flac, CD, Vinyl, etc. There should an "ARRIVAL" where you have the best of everything you can afford, $$ or space, where your speakers sound better than headphones ever could. Still the most expensive component is the ROOM, and the most ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I know the Cornwall is well respected, but I find them too bass heavy. It is only my opinion. I have Heresy II speakers and had a wonderful pair of LaScalas. I never felt the need for a subwoofer with my LS, although they didn't have that deep, rumbling bass. Clean and fast/tight. I will have another pair of LS up and running one of these days (the old ones left due to a financial need only). Welcome to the forums... we're all a little crazy here. Bruce Those who agree with you have never LIVED with really good subwoofers (not cheap ones) which means at least 3 of them balanced out in the room acoustically and EQ'd. Once you have that you will never live without. I currently have 3 Danley TH-50's of which 4 are used in a Chicago IMAX theater. Yeah, I like headroom, and bass detail, but with the same FEEL as live bass. You have to feel the bass below 60 hz. to really expericence the full spectrum that has been on CD's down to 4 Hz. for over 3 decades. +1 for really good subwoofers. I can tell you from recent experience that my KP250's (Heresy's) sound unbelievable coupled with one F20. I also own Cornwall's and Split Cornscala's and yes, they have much more base than the Heresy, but I run those with subs too. +1 from me too!!! I own Cornwalls and I also run 4 subs EQ'd and room treatments. -1 from me... For the most part, space precludes me from adding multiple subs, although one might get worked in. We all like what we like. Given the original poster's setup and musical tastes, he may also not need or want a sub. We are always so quick to spend other folks money and tell them they need to add everything else to their system to get enjoyment out of it. Let him enjoy what he has and just be in the moment. /rant off Bruce Totally understand that Bruce and I remember many years of enjoyable listening with no sub in site and I have some space limitations too, which is why I've got a rig in the shop and down in the basement. Ok, I let him enjoy the moment, but now he needs to go buy a few subs, some pure silver wires, new caps that cost $500 a piece and some ceramic pyramids to keep the wires off the floor while improving the sound. LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Don't forget the $5k room treatments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Update: I will see/hear a pair of Tangent 400 today and the Cornwall II tomorrow. I decided my many times more expensive speakers are not more likeable overall than the stock Heresy that I got (by accident actually). With very good line input and SS amplification for now (planing for tubes again soon). So I will follow the road called Klipsch. Very entertaining forum, will follow up and share my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The Tangent 400 contains the exact same parts as a Heresy II, including the crossovers. I have a pair of the HIIs and one of my co-workers has a pair og the Tangents. The Tangents have a cheaper cabinet, but go deeper. They are a sleeper that are usually found at a lower price than Heresy speakers of any year. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) I just returned from the Cornwall II audition. I really liked them - cannot say that it was obvious that they are in a differnt league than the Heresy I that I have at home. About the character, very similar, maybe more articulate and for sure more lower end. I picked many things that I liked during the short listening session. Some other things I did not, for instance the vibration I felt through the walls of the cabinet (was not abviously audible at the low levels of the 3W amp) and less dynamics than I expected but I can blame it on the owner's amplifier. I did not have my amplification gear with me so I can only judge by the well known hi-rez files that I am familiar with, the owner has a 3W per channel tube amp, unknown brand name. It is not my intention to review the Cornwall, I am just overthinking what to do, They cost 840 USD non negotiable. They look very good and seem to be an 1987 model (875XXX) serial number. They look original. So it is a gamble still. My precision speakers lost the sympathy battle to the Heresys but they image better and classical music and complex choirs sound better. I am tempted to believe that these big Cornwalls may be what I kept looking for but you never know. Impossible to bring them at home for a listening session and then decide. So I will have to gamble. Edited February 24, 2016 by revox2tr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 you might want to consider the Crites Cornscala Type D as an upgrade alternate to a Cornwall ll and lll. Better larger horn, better compression driver and Bob can CNC cut you Baltic Birch panels for your cabinets. http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala-style-d.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 speakers have been sold - just before I was getting ready to go pick them up - someone just bought them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Keep your eyes open for a set of Forte ll and then after those a set of CF3 or CF4 but be aware the CF3/4 respond best to power and a pair of matching stereo blocks is the very best way (vertical bi amp) to run them, much better than a big mono block. Those are the best that Klipsch has to offer. For now get a set of new phenolic diaphragms (they are better than the stock diaphragms) from Bob Crites along with a set of his phenolic CT125 tweeters (both just drop in and play) and your Heresy will truly sing for you.are you saying the cf-3/4 are the best speakers Klipsch makes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Keep your eyes open for a set of Forte ll and then after those a set of CF3 or CF4 but be aware the CF3/4 respond best to power and a pair of matching stereo blocks is the very best way (vertical bi amp) to run them, much better than a big mono block. Those are the best that Klipsch has to offer. For now get a set of new phenolic diaphragms (they are better than the stock diaphragms) from Bob Crites along with a set of his phenolic CT125 tweeters (both just drop in and play) and your Heresy will truly sing for you.are you saying the cf-3/4 are the best speakers Klipsch makes? in this size of cabinet the CF3/4 are very impressive. They have the largest wide band horn used by Klipsch in any home speaker. The K400 is a larger horn but it is not a wide band horn it is a mid horn. The horn in the CF3/4 is very close to the size of K510 except the horn in the CF3/4 is a one inch horn. Loudspeakers with a large horn running two way do some things very well, the larger the horn the better to obtain a low crossover point and to control polar patterns. In terms of accuracy Three and four ways can be made to show better response but two ways are easier and more enjoyable for me to listen to. Two way studio monitors with a horn for the mid/hi ruled supreme for decades made by companies like Altec and others (remember the 604 and the Tannoy DC). Don Keele won an Oscar for a large Bi radial two way horn design of this style. They serve the music well. If you want a low crossover point you will require a large horn and top quality wide band compression drivers so they are not cheap to make. I sold my CF3 cabinets because I am not a fan of the WTW configuration preferring the WWT arrangement uses so successfully in many other Klipsch loudspeakers. I believe that for best stage and image the horn needs to be centred upon your seated ear level which is usually around 38 - 40 inches up off the floor. I hope that helps you to appreciate my comments. Large folded horns like the Khorn will play louder but they are very large and have issues of their own to consider. Given the size and the flexibility that allows the CF3/4 when properly amplified are very fine loudspeakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Keep your eyes open for a set of Forte ll and then after those a set of CF3 or CF4 but be aware the CF3/4 respond best to power and a pair of matching stereo blocks is the very best way (vertical bi amp) to run them, much better than a big mono block. Those are the best that Klipsch has to offer. For now get a set of new phenolic diaphragms (they are better than the stock diaphragms) from Bob Crites along with a set of his phenolic CT125 tweeters (both just drop in and play) and your Heresy will truly sing for you.are you saying the cf-3/4 are the best speakers Klipsch makes? in this size of cabinet the CF3/4 are very impressive. They have the largest wide band horn used by Klipsch in any home speaker. The K400 is a larger horn but it is not a wide band horn it is a mid horn. The horn in the CF3/4 is very close to the size of K510 except the horn in the CF3/4 is a one inch horn. Loudspeakers with a large horn running two way do some things very well, the larger the horn the better to obtain a low crossover point and to control polar patterns. In terms of accuracy Three and four ways can be made to show better response but two ways are easier and more enjoyable for me to listen to. Two way studio monitors with a horn for the mid/hi ruled supreme for decades made by companies like Altec and others (remember the 604 and the Tannoy DC). Don Keele won an Oscar for a large Bi radial two way horn design of this style. They serve the music well. If you want a low crossover point you will require a large horn and top quality wide band compression drivers so they are not cheap to make. I sold my CF3 cabinets because I am not a fan of the WTW configuration preferring the WWT arrangement uses so successfully in many other Klipsch loudspeakers. I believe that for best stage and image the horn needs to be centred upon your seated ear level which is usually around 38 - 40 inches up off the floor. I hope that helps you to appreciate my comments. Large folded horns like the Khorn will play louder but they are very large and have issues of their own to consider. Given the size and the flexibility that allows the CF3/4 when properly amplified are very fine loudspeakers. man moray, RESPECT! This was a fantastic explanation. As a 510 owner I get why you prefer the epic. I love my 904's. I mean in all reality they could be a cf-5 in a veneered cabinet that was deeper and skinnier. Hmm maybe that should be my next project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 The Cornwall II has no acoustic batting on the inside and the crossover networks look like they were made by Fisher-Price. Nothing but bare wood hence the vibrations on the outside of the cabinet. Cornwall 1's have acoustic batting on all sides and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 cotton batting has zero impact upon cabinet wall vibration.The reflex vent deals with the primary resonance of the of the driver in the cabinet. given the vent design it does not let a lot of upper range woofer output escape the vent. Additional batting (acoustic damping) was not deemed required. Some Damping on the three internal walls will yield some small improvement in reflected waves and internal resonances of the cabinet but they are for the most part going to be at the edge or out of the drivers bandwidth. So they were not considered to be worth the added cost of materials and time. The fact that the Cornwall is still such a popular loudspeakers speaks well for the design choices made by Mr. Klipsch don't you think? PS: if you want to deal with cabinet resonances then you will need to include panel braces and cross braces to tie all the panels together. A thicker set of baffles or serious baffle bracing would also be worth while. But those changes are too expensive for you to expect to see the manufacturer to be including them. You will have to do those yourself if you want the benefits they provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) Wonderful speakers the Cornwall, I am still upset missing the purchase. As I started this topic, I will conclude that it should have been an easy decision, in fact the Cornwall speakers are much better than I expected, and the price around $800 USD is low for this product. Very simple. I hope to find another pair in as good condition as possible and at that time it wil be a fast purchase. In the mean time I will play with the Heresy ones. In the mean time I will keep instructing myself on the sound quality of the Klipsch vintage line. My esoteric "precision" speakers I am planning to sell and forget that route. It makes more sense to buy Klipsch, a bright and common sense design from almost all points of view the gifted engineer provided. Even built on a budget as some think they were. The speakers are alive and special beyond belief. Edited February 24, 2016 by revox2tr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 don't miss any chance to listen to a pair of Chorus ll. the Chorus was the replacement for the Cornwall then the Chorus ll they have a smaller cabinet than a Cornwall and a much better woofer and a far better mid horn (chorus ll). If you want to run flea watt amps the Cornwall is your best bet if however you are ok with solid state and especially biamping a set of Chorus ll will not fail to amaze. A set of KLF30 will push even more air with its dual twelve inch woofers you can rock hard. Lots of good Klipsch to listen to out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Update: I found another pair, this time Cornwall I (1977) and purchased them fast enough not to miss them again , wonderful speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Cornwalls NOT in a different league than the Heresys? really? It's not even the same ball park... unless that ball park is a smaller sized room where the cornwalls could not possibly stretch their legs. if you have a slightly larger room size where spatial effortless sound at moderate to high levels with much lower distortion is your goal, then there is no way a heresy can keep up with a Cornwall. Heresys are great, bit they ain't no Cornwall. Edited March 13, 2016 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revox2tr Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Update on the great speakers: I am again surprised by the texture and qualities of the Klipsch speakers First I got the Heresy I by accident. I got finally a nice surprise after years of slow progress and lots of trial and error with buying and changing speakers. Lots of opinions read about the bass, and the extended highs etc. - important characteristics too. The listening pleasure is way beyond expectations, with or without the frequency extensions. The secret is their character, the design and the result. I continue to be surprised by the Cornwalls I - I am not concerned any more about comparing them to the Heresy I. Keep the Heresy, keep the Cornwall. Genetically the same, different in many ways but still so intriguingly live sounding, fast and dynamic and much more. I could say effortless, transparent, real, large, low distorsion, convincing, emotional - and more. I will try some tube amplification soon, for now all listening was done using a class A SS amp. Edited March 16, 2016 by revox2tr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) sold my CF3 cabinets because I am not a fan of the WTW configuration preferring the WWT arrangement uses so successfully in many other Klipsch loudspeakers. I've heard you say that before Moray and I've always found that odd because you are certainly of the biggest proponents of the CF-3/4. I agree completely with your love of that speaker, putting it near the top of all the Klipsch offerings. Where we differ slightly is that I like my CF-4 BECAUSE of the WTM (or MTM) design. I think the drivers blend the sound beautifully when it reaches the ears. You don't hear the drivers, all you hear is music, and if you crank it up, it sounds like live! +++ Edit: Whoops, I just re-read the title of this thread. I'm thread crapping! Sorry. Edited March 16, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrofan Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 If you could hear your current system with a good sub then you would think you had to have it but if you don't know what you're missing you can be perfectly happy with it the way it is. But yes i agree good subs can only make any system better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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