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RSVRMAN

Jubilee advice needed.

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Long time reader, but never signed up until now due to unanswered questions.

 

Hopefully, my intro will help with answers as I’m about to push off from the dock and head to sea, where my previous experience has only been on a small pond.

 

My klipsch journey began with a pair of RF-82’s. Not long after I bought the full matching surround setup. I was very happy with the sound. Most of my friends were those obsessed with bose or whatever cheap surround was for sale on black Friday. I was not overly exposed to good sounding systems due to this. Well one day, a friend decided to purchase my setup and I was without speakers for a few months. Well it didn’t take long and I went right back to Klipsch. I bought a pair of RF-7’s and slowly added speaker by speaker until I again had a 5.1 surround. I also after much reading on AVS forum stumbled upon a SVS 13 ultra and paired the klipsch with a nice black looking water heater in the corner of the room. I loved the system and it was amazing for both music and movies. All was good with the world.

 

Then it happened. I started noticing I would get headaches after long listening periods. It was like I had tinnitus, even after short listening periods. At first I thought it was just me, maybe something was wrong with my hearing. I started researching and realized that others had the same conclusion with klipsch’s reference line. I was powering them solely with a receiver, no additional amps or Tubes. Well, I decided it was time to demo other high end systems to see what is out there that will help. I’ve demoed Magnepans, Martin Logans, SVS and a variety of others. They all had their strengths and weaknesses. Nothing quite did it compared to what I had at home.

 

I got in touch with an old friend and went to visit him. He was always big into audio, but to me in a weird way. I was always into digital, plug and play. He on the other hand built his own tube amps and was as analog as it came. I guess I just never understood his way. I started talking about my setup and he smiled, said lets go get a few beers and come back to his place, as he had to show me something. We sat down in front of these old looking speakers, he fired up the light bulbs and I couldn’t even speak. We started with Beethoven then onto classic rock and some more modern tunes. I quickly found out I had been doing it all wrong. The speakers in question were cornwalls. I had never heard a system that made my hair stand on end and quite literally brought tears to surface. I stayed the night and again we listened for nearly 6 hours the next day. No headaches and all smiles. I learned a lot how tubes affected the music, different types of tubes, importance of having an amazing DAC and high bit audio. Most importantly though the speakers.

 

Now in question what to do with my current system. Do I add tubes? I learned how I was vastly under powering my RF7’s. Then as fate would have it, my wife and I needed to relocate from the Midwest to San Francisco for work. When we sold the home, the buyer was very much interested in all of the speakers and TV setup. Luck would have it, he paid nearly what I had invested.

 

Fast forward to today. Wife is allowing me to buy the speakers of choice (no matter how ugly), since the primary reason we moved is due to her work. However, one caveat. Since she has seen me buy 3 separate systems and a plethora of IEMS. No more systems for at least 10 years…(limit on IEMS as well – please ears don’t grow)  So I have to choose wisely. This also considering she is helping fund this addiction. Happy wife, very happy life! (Bonus – showed her a pic of Jubes and she is ok with them)

 

I have spent the past 2 months researching with help of my friend and seems I keep coming back to the jubilee. (Coyotee’s posts alone have me hooked) From reviewing past threads and what others paid, I believe I can make it happen within my budget. I would love to demo a pair, however have not seen or remember any posts from someone in the bay area with a pair. If there is and someone would like to offer a listening session I would be honored!

 

I will offer that I do not know that much about tube amps, pre amps or how they work. I have never had to work with an active crossover. I’m trying to read as much as I can for now and continue to learn, since previously I’ve been a plug and play guy. Most of my music will be coming from PC at high bit rates. I’m 60% music 40% movies.

 

I’m still on the fence on going 2 way vs 3 way. Probably leaning more on the 2 way since it appears from my reading most prefer to go that route in a home setting. On that, I really want to keep these things buttery smooth, yet revealing. On that I’m still in the process of reading the driver to pair with the horns. K69, BMS 4592, TAD-4002 (TD seems to be unobtainable from what I've seen and very pricey). I would look to further advice on this based on my listening preference. Will also be asking a lot about what tube amps you guys are using and what crossovers you guys use. I plan on going active for sure on that part. Since I plan on using these for movies as well, I started researching a receiver (emotiva) 2 channel that can do DTS in this type of setup.


Sorry in advance for the wall of text. I have a lot to learn, and welcome any and all knowledge. Thank you in advance as I will probably have many many questions.

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Pic of my first setup. Trying to find other pics and will post. Painted the room copper to match the woofers. 

klipsch.JPG

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Jubilees are a pretty advanced system. I wouldn't want to talk you out of a pair but when you get into systems like that the little stuff gets more and more important. Any weakness in your chain and you are going to hear it. Tell us more about the system around your Jubes? 

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This. Jumped into a pair of khorns and heard a bunch of faults down stream I was previously unaware of. Happy about it, but it was a slap in the face for sure. 

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2 hours ago, russ69 said:

Jubilees are a pretty advanced system. I wouldn't want to talk you out of a pair but when you get into systems like that the little stuff gets more and more important. Any weakness in your chain and you are going to hear it. Tell us more about the system around your Jubes? 

I'm starting fresh. I will be buying all new. I've seen others using the DX38 Electrovoice, considering this is now discontinued I'm reading more on their DC-One. I have not yet picked out Tube amps, or if I go solid state for the bass bin. I'm thinking this will depend if I'm going with the 2 way vs 3 way. At this point I'm still undecided on the 2 vs 3. I read one thread and I'm gun ho on going the 2 way, then another poster points out the benefits of the I believe (1132 & tractix horn) on the 3 way then I feel back at square one. While I understand what PWK's intentions were for this to be a 2 way system, I'm still just undecided at this point. The most important part is to get smooth top end -  how that can be achieved is something I can read more on. 

 

I'm aware this will be a huge leap compared to what I was doing before (plug and play), however I'm quite quick to learn and greatly enjoy reading. I know far more about in ear audio, than speakers. Currently rock schitt at work with my kaisers (butter smooth and heavenly to listen to.) I've decided to go end game at home and be good for awhile, also per the WAF, if I go with something else and want to modify or add I'm aware of that answer will probably be a firm no. 

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2 hours ago, standingwave said:

This. Jumped into a pair of khorns and heard a bunch of faults down stream I was previously unaware of. Happy about it, but it was a slap in the face for sure. 

What happened that you werent expecting? Wiring or amp related? 

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RE: Jubilees, seek the advice of Chris A on this forum. 

 

Certain speakers are ruthless in revealing bits of distortion upstream.  This includes Jubs, Khorns and LaScala.  Bad recordings are the main culprit.  Wiring rarely makes an audible difference.  There are differences in the sound of various amps, though.

 

As to headaches, room acoustics may make a difference.  Chris A can give you advice on that, too, especially when using fully horn loaded speakers.

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32 minutes ago, garyrc said:

RE: Jubilees, seek the advice of Chris A on this forum. 

 

Certain speakers are ruthless in revealing bits of distortion upstream.  This includes Jubs, Khorns and LaScala.  Bad recordings are the main culprit.  Wiring rarely makes an audible difference.  There are differences in the sound of various amps, though.

 

As to headaches, room acoustics may make a difference.  Chris A can give you advice on that, too, especially when using fully horn loaded speakers.

Thank you Garyrc, will be sure to reach out to him. I've seen that name in many of the Jube threads that I've read.

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Yes, the Electro-Voice DX38 is discontinued.

However, if you are interested in getting one, I have a used one for sale. You can PM me or check my ad in the Garage Sale section

-Tom

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The 2 Way, with K-69 drivers and DX-38 is mind blowing, and is a set up that has extensive information.  I would start there, for a great many people, that was all they ever wanted and they were done.

 

The TAD drivers, to my recollection are universally considered to be an improvement, in one way or another, but whether the improvement is worth the cost is subject to personal taste.  You have to get them with K-69 in a two way so my thinking is try them out for 50 to a 100 hours and see what you think with your room and application before making the upgrade.

 

As to the 3-way, the guy who designed both the 2 way for home application and the 3 and 4 way systems for pro cinema, @Chief bonehead, has indicated that 2 way is going to be the optimal configuration for most home applications, but not all.  He has stated that there are some situations where the advantages of his 3 way could be utilized.   

 

In addition to @Chris A, @mikebse2a3 can give you a lot of his thoughts on what you might consider based upon your room size and configuration. 

 

Travis

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I'm at work so just a short comment.

 

If you decide you want to walk down this path, know that you can get there.  It might seem challenging at first (going active) but trust me when I say, if I can do it, anyone can.  You just have to want to and not fret about any bump in the road.  It can be as easy as plug & play, you just have to have the right parts to plug!

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7 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

Yes, the Electro-Voice DX38 is discontinued.

However, if you are interested in getting one, I have a used one for sale. You can PM me or check my ad in the Garage Sale section

-Tom

Thanks Preston, I see it listed and thank you for your offer. If this is something I decide to go with, I will consider purchasing yours.

 

 

1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

The 2 Way, with K-69 drivers and DX-38 is mind blowing, and is a set up that has extensive information.  I would start there, for a great many people, that was all they ever wanted and they were done.

 

The TAD drivers, to my recollection are universally considered to be an improvement, in one way or another, but whether the improvement is worth the cost is subject to personal taste.  You have to get them with K-69 in a two way so my thinking is try them out for 50 to a 100 hours and see what you think with your room and application before making the upgrade.

 

As to the 3-way, the guy who designed both the 2 way for home application and the 3 and 4 way systems for pro cinema, @Chief bonehead, has indicated that 2 way is going to be the optimal configuration for most home applications, but not all.  He has stated that there are some situations where the advantages of his 3 way could be utilized.   

 

In addition to @Chris A, @mikebse2a3 can give you a lot of his thoughts on what you might consider based upon your room size and configuration. 

 

Travis

Thanks Travis, I have been sifting through many of Roys (past and present) posts. Also his work with PWK. Even stumbled into some of his previous avatar posts and meetups. He is a bit of a shadow to follow, but if your clever you can find his info. Since I'm finding you can't purchase the K402's without a driver that would probably be what I would do. Is the K69 the only 2 way (PA) driver offered by klipsch? I've been reading about the 1132 and 1133 in relative to their 3 way systems. Just curiosity. I've seen posts on the K69 being harsh, which is something I'm just fearful of. Unfortunately, since I haven't demoed any Jubes I'm only reflecting on what others have posted and could very well be in the wrong on that assessment. 

 

I've found a few 4002's however the beryllium diaphragms are what seem to be impossible to find. Seen trueextent making replacements, but it doesn't seem to be the same honeycomb as the TAD's. Not sure if that would be a future option?

 

I've been reading more on the 4592 ND- ( I may have the wrong number as I think these are the mids) as a comparison. 

 

My current room is 25 x 30. Since we relocated and are renting, this is what I'm limited to. Thankfully I have solid corners and have wiggle room. Eventually when we buy a home again in a few years I plan to do what I did with my previous home and build a full theater/music room. 

1 hour ago, Coytee said:

I'm at work so just a short comment.

 

If you decide you want to walk down this path, know that you can get there.  It might seem challenging at first (going active) but trust me when I say, if I can do it, anyone can.  You just have to want to and not fret about any bump in the road.  It can be as easy as plug & play, you just have to have the right parts to plug!

Hello Coyotee, 

I've been following your posts across many forums. I can say that because of many of your posts I've decided to go down this path. I've read (borderline - stalked lol) your posts on active vs passive. I'm fine with learning and not ashamed to admit my lack of knowledge. We all start from somewhere. As long as those are willing to share information, I will gladly and wholeheartedly accept it!

 

 

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On 12/19/2016 at 12:07 PM, dwilawyer said:

The 2 Way, with K-69 drivers and DX-38 is mind blowing, and is a set up that has extensive information.

However, there really needs to be some sort of central place to find buying information, options, rationale, and the listening differences for Jubilees in the home environment--accessible to everyone.  Mike's (mikebase2a3, that is) has two files on the background of the K-402, Jubilee bass bin, and their combination to form a Jubilee configuration.  These are great sources, but not really geared for those that are trying to make choices in buying a complete setup.

 

One thing that I can say: it doesn't have to take days/months/years to get everything set up and dialed in: you should be able to up and running with a 90-95% solution within a few hours of setting them up after removing them from their shipping boxes. 

 

This is the real reason why I wrote the "corner horn imaging FAQ" and a few other "frequently asked questions" (FAQ) threads, including the use of REW to do in-room EQ calculations and using Xilica software on a laptop or computer (windows-based) to get everything dialed in. 

 

The concerns about hearing the flaws of your favorite music sounding bad on Jubilees are also largely unfounded, since there is a cheap and reasonably accessible way to help them sound much better if you're willing to spend a little time demastering your music--music that was actually tuned for playing on very cheap loudspeakers and earbuds by the record companies.

 

Perhaps pulling everything into one "Jubilee Buying FAQ" might be the best solution.  I'll think on a good way to pull all this together.

 

Chris

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I have heard just about every configuration you can imagine, passive, active.  95 percent of it is Roy's bass bin/402 combo and his settings, 3% is K69 or TAD, 2 percent is active vs passive.  

 

You need to start with the 90 to know where you are getting at.  The people who for sure thought the sound was harsh were the ones who got an 1132 by mistake IIRC.  Roy was the one who got us into TAD, and they have to be Be to make it worth the expense.  I wasn't aware they offered a non-Be option.

 

If you really want to look at 3 or 4 way, his Gradure line takes things way above the previous 3 way in my opinion.  But you would really have to know what you are doing to go that route because you would be the one forging new ground.

 

Mark prefers the 3 way approach, but he has gone through many, many permutations. I don't think he is even using the Jube bass bin.

 

If you want turn key bliss get the 402/69 combo with a good active that Chris recommends, or even a good used DX 38 as a reference, and add salt and pepper to taste from there.

 

If you go more modern up to date xover, get one that will allow our to go 3 way if you decide to go that route later on, or just to try out.

 

 

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Where are you located?  Perhaps there is a Jubilee owner near enough to you that a visit might work?

 

I don't think I've met/spoken with 100% of the owners, (probably 96%) but of those I've dealt with, virtually every one of them/us has indicated a willingness to have someone over to listen.

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Another Jub owner here.  In case you are thinking of a price that someone paid for a pair of Jubilees bought before this year, you should get a current quote.  The price increase is more than significant.


Bob Crites

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17 minutes ago, Chris A said:

However, there really needs to be some sort of central place to find buying information, options, rationale, and the listening differences for Jubilees in the home environment--accessible to everyone.  Mike's (mikebase2a3, that is) has two files on the background of the K-402, Jubilee bass bin, and their combination to form a Jubilee configuration.  These are great sources, but not really geared for those that are trying to make choices in buying a complete setup.

 

One thing that I can say: it doesn't have to take days/months/years to get everything set up and dialed in: you should be able to up and running with a 90-95% solution within a few hours of setting them up after removing them from their shipping boxes. 

 

This is the real reason why I wrote the "corner horn imaging FAQ" and a few other "frequently asked questions" (FAQ) threads, including the use of REW to do in-room EQ calculations and using Xilica software on a laptop or computer (windows-based) to get everything dialed in. 

 

The concerns about hearing the flaws of your favorite music sounding bad on Jubilees are also largely unfounded, since there is a cheap and reasonably accessible way to help them sound much better if you're willing to spend a little time unmastering your music--music that was actually tuned for playing on very cheap loudspeakers and earbuds by the record companies.

 

Perhaps pulling everything into one "Jubilee Buying FAQ" might be the best solution.  I'll think on a good way to pull all this together.

 

Chris

Would be awesome if someone with lots of experience would create a sticky, with references to past posts. 

 

12 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

I have heard just about every configuration you can imagine, passive, active.  95 percent of it is Roy's bass bin/402 combo and his settings, 3% is K69 or TAD, 2 percent is active vs passive.  

 

You need to start with the 90 to know where you are getting at.  The people who for sure thought the sound was harsh were the ones who got an 1132 by mistake IIRC.  Roy was the one who got us into TAD, and they have to be Be to make it worth the expense.  I wasn't aware they offered a non-Be option.

 

If you really want to look at 3 or 4 way, his Gradure line takes things way above the previous 3 way in my opinion.  But you would really have to know what you are doing to go that route because you would be the one forging new ground.

 

Mark prefers the 3 way approach, but he has gone through many, many permutations. I don't think he is even using the Jube bass bin.

 

If you want turn key bliss get the 402/69 combo with a good active that Chris recommends, or even a good used DX 38 as a reference, and add salt and pepper to taste from there.

 

If you go more modern up to date xover, get one that will allow our to go 3 way if you decide to go that route later on, or just to try out.

 

 

Is your preference two way then with how many configurations you have listened to? GOod to know about the 1132 mistake, I had read about one pair that mistakenly got sent out.  Do you know if Roy currently uses K69 or the TAD since he introduced them?

 

For the crossover, may be looking at one that I "may" and thats a big "if" would be one that would incorporate Danley DTS or something of the like in the future. Getting into the below 32hz spectrum. 

10 minutes ago, Coytee said:

Where are you located?  Perhaps there is a Jubilee owner near enough to you that a visit might work?

 

I don't think I've met/spoken with 100% of the owners, (probably 96%) but of those I've dealt with, virtually every one of them/us has indicated a willingness to have someone over to listen.

San Francisco. I haven't seen any posts from someone in this area, but would welcome an audition for sure!

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29 minutes ago, BEC said:

Another Jub owner here.  In case you are thinking of a price that someone paid for a pair of Jubilees bought before this year, you should get a current quote.  The price increase is more than significant.


Bob Crites

I believe there were two different companies that offered it from what I saw, I was not aware of the price increase. I would have assumed some, but not huge due to no changes in design.

 

I guess I will need to call and figure out, as if they did increase exponentially, I don't want to waste everyones time then. :(

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I think the big price increase was in January 2016.  So if you have a price from this year, it is probably good, unless they raise it again this January.

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Do you have recommendations on whom to call for ordering them? Also the model numbers for 2 vs 3 way? Do you know what the price currently was/is?

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