mikebse2a3 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 5 hours ago, USNRET said: Is R5 supposed to be missing? I suspect that is a change in production but either way you did report good sound with the network as is until the Mc275 trial when everything changed for you. miketn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yes indeed strange times. The different network is much more to my liking I have gone thru numerous tunes and this is MUCH better. Using the Mc pre I can adjust balance easily and the two fronts are miles apart. With the different net in the right I love the sound of the right although it takes a little more power to achieve the same output as the stock network. I have fed the speakers from both Marantz / Emo and Mc pre / amp conclusion is the same. Listening to tracks such as Crosby Stills Nash where the lead vocalist swaps from right to left the difference between the two is night/day. The left is SHRILL just like both were. In mono with female vocals sweeping the balance tells all. After plugging in the single Belle I was very disappointed that it sounded so good. After the crossover change I was delighted with the sound but disappointed that I need to get some new crossovers. Well at the price I gave for the KHorns new networks are still are ok. I guess my lingering question is if the stock networks are defective or they just don't fit my taste. That in no way explains the change in sound......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 4 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said: Sorry you have been struggling with this issue but swapping in the DeanG network doesn't explain how you originally had good sound with the stock AK5/Klipschorns. It also doesn't explain why swapping in ONE new XO fixed the problem, since the sound was out on both sides. Schu is on record saying the fault will be found somehow connected to the XO. The successful XO swap seems to support his theory, but for me I am still at a loss to explain why. +++ Mike, have you swapped that AK-5 XO back over to the Belle for testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, wvu80 said: It also doesn't explain why swapping in ONE new XO fixed the problem, since the sound was out on both sides. Fixed the right not the left. We were posting at same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 hours ago, USNRET said: Fixed the right not the left. We were posting at same time. I saw your post after I had typed mine, just as you said. +++ So let me get this straight, by swapping the Crites XO to one side only (Right side) you have achieved good sound. The stock left has the shrill sound. Have you swapped the Crites to the LEFT side? +++ If you subsequently swap the Crites to the LEFT and it works properly, then must you conclude A) both stock AK-5's are defective, or B ) the stock AK-5's have a characteristic shrill sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I saw your post after I had typed mine, just as you said. +++ So let me get this straight, by swapping the Crites XO to one side only (Right side) you have achieved good sound. The stock left has the shrill sound. Have you swapped the Crites to the LEFT side? +++ If you subsequently swap the Crites to the LEFT and it works properly, then must you conclude A) both stock AK-5's are defective, or B ) the stock AK-5's have a characteristic shrill sound? Actually a DeanG SuperX but yes to the right and the left is shrill. I have not installed the after market XO in the left to completely satisfy the anomaly but I agree with your hypothesis. Just doesn't answer why the sound changed at the time it did. With this year model I have to remove my mod of the enclosed back, bass grill and get in to the bass bin in order to incorporate the crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 hours ago, USNRET said: With this year model I have to remove my mod of the enclosed back, bass grill and get in to the bass bin in order to incorporate the crossover. I see the hassle. On my Khorns everything is exposed so when I slipped in my Crites XO it had an open space and a shelf. And all it took was a 5 minute wire swap. My concern on your behalf is I can't believe you need a complete XO swap out on new speakers. I'm not even sure I've heard of anyone doing that on late model Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 Beats the heck outta me. Initially I loved the sound over the Belles and then POOF, it was BAD. Today I am so totally awaiting the opportunity to get a pair of crossovers in and listen because just a single xover is great...I still hear that left CRAP. Ahem! I am looking for a pair of xovers; don't trip over your feet getting to the keyboard to tell me what ya got. Yea, I know I'll move that to the right forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 @USNRET I don't want to talk you out of spending your money but have you thought about contacting Klipsch tech support first? Maybe there is a known issue that isn't publicly known they could help you with. I would just hate to see you spend money on new XO's only to find the old ones were fine, or were easily fixable with a simple component replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Jupiter capped AA's... I'm just sayin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, wvu80 said: @USNRET I don't want to talk you out of spending your money but have you thought about contacting Klipsch tech support first? Maybe there is a known issue that isn't publicly known they could help you with. I would just hate to see you spend money on new XO's only to find the old ones were fine, or were easily fixable with a simple component replacement. Appreciate the thoughts. I bought these as NIB "B" stock sight unseen. I took a chance that "B" would be finish issue (there is one) and not a performance issue. I have NO hard feelings to the gent that sold them to me. I don't hold Klipsch responsible at all since I didn't add to their profit line by buying "second hand" IF my networks could be a specimen for forensic analysis by the factory they are welcome to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Because of the symmetry of the symptoms, it looks to me like there must be a systematic connection mistake on both channels... My theory - two wrongs make a right... you corrected one wrong, so what was right (two wrongs) is now wrong (one wrong and one right). I'm thinking the previous owner reversed a connection (probably on both the crossovers) and also reversed the corresponding connections (on the intermediary panels) either by accident or as a latter correction... the result was that the pair of reversals were incidental. At some point in your disconnecting (not checking for anything wrong) and reconnecting (connecting as expected to be right) you ended up correcting one from each pair of these wrong connections, so now each pairs' remaining wrong connection is no longer being corrected and showing itself. The insidious part is that your dilgence with making proper connections is probably the cause of the problem. The stock crossovers have wires from itself to an intermediary panel connection that has the provision for straps to distinguish a single full channel connection vs a dual split HF and LF connection... and then from there to the amp(s). I know it seems remedial, but all of these connections should be verified as correct. In all this is 20 connections for each channel. - the speaker connections on the crossovers (6) - the connections on the crossovers from the intermediary panels (4) - the crossover side connections on the intermediary panels (4) - the straps configuration (4) - the amp(s) side connections to the intermediary panels (2) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 If Klipsch does not want the crossovers after you replace them, I would like to buy them from you, so I can check them to learn what caused this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, pauln said: I'm thinking the previous owner reversed a connection (probably on both the crossovers) and also reversed the corresponding connections (on the intermediary panels) either by accident or as a latter correction... the result was that the pair of reversals were incidental. Factory sealed boxes, never opened. Sound was good out of the box; a month +/- later it went to dodo. I checked connections and polarity in every exploration; no defect found (yes, i loosened and tightened). I intentionally connected drivers out of phase to verify. Next up is the left speaker internal inspection. At this point I just have to say that I like the aftermarket network over the stock be it correct or malfunctioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 39 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: If Klipsch does not want the crossovers after you replace them, I would like to buy them from you, so I can check them to learn what caused this problem. They are yours; 1 million dollars!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 hours ago, USNRET said: They are yours; 1 million dollars!!!!!!!!! Good call, Dr Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, USNRET said: They are yours; 1 million dollars!!!!!!!!! Is that for one or two crossovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 So I have using one DeanG xover for a few days and all is well in that side. I just received a pair of Bob's AAs today and opened up the right speaker again to mount the crossover in the bass bin in place of the stock AK-5. Now I don't know what all this is on the board but there are a couple of places that sure do appear that they have shorted two traces together. Most places have white crust (corrosion, flux, ??) but at least two places on this one looked to be burned across and/or have some conductive material across two traces. Most solder joints look like I did them; cold, contaminated, pitiful! I need to drill, mount and wire this one and then dissect the left side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, USNRET said: So I have using one DeanG xover for a few days and all is well in that side. I just received a pair of Bob's AAs today and opened up the right speaker again to mount the crossover in the bass bin in place of the stock AK-5. Now I don't know what all this is on the board but there are a couple of places that sure do appear that they have shorted two traces together. Most places have white crust (corrosion, flux, ??) but at least two places on this one looked to be burned across and/or have some conductive material across two traces. Most solder joints look like I did them; cold, contaminated, pitiful! I need to drill, mount and wire this one and then dissect the left side. Wow, that is ugly! I have AK4s, which differ very slightly from AK5s (one resistor is omitted, according to Klipsch), and nothing in them looks like that. The question remains: why did the Khorns sound good at first? I wonder if something in the McIntosh 275 caused a surge? I don't know enough to make an educated guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Ewwwwwww! Holy electrolysis Batman. What the heck is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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