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How many watts for a amplifier when pair with RP-160M?

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Hi!

 

I want pair a amplifier with RP-160M (Power handing is 100W).

But I don't know How many watts is the best for 160M.

Currently, I can select amplifier Yamaha A-S301. It have 60w+60w for "RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz)"

If I pair A-S301 with 160M, Do it have clipping or any issue ?

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

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Welcome to the forum!

 

How big is your room?

 

How close will you be to the speakers?

 

Do you like to listen loud, medium, or soft?

 

Will you have a powered subwoofer to do the heavy lifting? 

 

Apparently (if the review I looked at is correct), this unit has tone controls.  That is a good thing, in my mind.  But, if you are the type of person that likes to turn up both the bass and the volume to high levels, you might, conceivably, have a clipping problem.   To make a significant difference (3 dB) you would have to get an amp of double the power (120 w.p.c., RMS, 8 ohms, 20 to 20K Hz, honestly rated).  These speakers have a rated sensitivity of 96 dB at 2.83 V (1 W into 8 Ohms) at 1 meter, but that is at 1 meter (as is the standard rating distance).  A common mistake is to think, "96 dB is plenty for me, and that only takes 1 watt!".   But, that only holds true if the speakers are just 1 meter away, which they may be on a desk top.  Inside (outside, or anechoic, don't count for what we're doing) in a room of "average" :rolleyes: acoustical brightness, we lose 3 dB for each doubling of distance,  so, if you are 4 meters away, you may need 4 watts for 96 dB, or 1 watt for only 90 dB (it comes to the same thing). But, that's only 96 dB at 4 watts.  Moving through the "double the wattage for every 3 dB of increase," we get:

At 4 Meters:

 4 watts   96 dB

8 watts    99 dB

16 watts 102 dB

32 watts  105 dB ... reference level for instantaneous peaks for THX through main speakers (not the sub).  You might have about a 3 dB safety margin with the Yamaha.  See below.

64 watts   108 dB

 

But, it is not quite that simple. 1) How long are these ("instantaneous") peaks?  An amp that could easily handle a 2 millisecond peak might see a 200 millisecond peak as challenging, and a broad, 2 second peak as more like a sustained sound.  2) THX themselves measured 108 dB peaks for The Empire Strikes Back, way back in 1980 (not counting what went through the subwoofers).  Paul W. Klipsch, who used to record live orchestras, said, "You need 115 dB peaks at your ears to capture the blood stirring climaxes of a symphony orchestra."  These were probably fairly "instantaneous" peaks.

 

Coming back to Earth, the chart above indicates that in an average room, you would need 32 watts (without bass boost).   The 96 dB @ 2.83 V @ 1 Meter sensitivity is very close to the sensitivity of the Heresy.  An old Dope from Hope paper (Vol 16, No. 1, January 1977) rates the Heresy as needing 45 watts to produce 105 dB, average level, at 8 Ohms, midband, in a typical listening room of 3,000 cu. ft. R =200.  So, since both 45 watts and 32 watts are below your 60 watts RMS power per channel, you would probably be O.K. with the Yamaha -- but no guarantees. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, garyrc said:

Welcome to the forum!

 

How big is your room?

 

How close will you be to the speakers?

 

Do you like to listen loud, medium, or soft?

 

Will you have a powered subwoofer to do the heavy lifting? 

 

Apparently (if the review I looked at is correct), this unit has tone controls.  That is a good thing, in my mind.  But, if you are the type of person that likes to turn up both the bass and the volume to high levels, you might, conceivably, have a clipping problem.   To make a significant difference (3 dB) you would have to get an amp of double the power (120 w.p.c., RMS, 8 ohms, 20 to 20K Hz, honestly rated).  These speakers have a rated sensitivity of 96 dB at 2.83 V (1 W into 8 Ohms) at 1 meter, but that is at 1 meter (as is the standard rating distance).  A common mistake is to think, "96 dB is plenty for me, and that only takes 1 watt!".   But, that only holds true if the speakers are just 1 meter away, which they may be on a desk top.  Inside (outside, or anechoic, don't count for what we're doing) in a room of "average" :rolleyes: acoustical brightness, we lose 3 dB for each doubling of distance,  so, if you are 4 meters away, you may need 4 watts for 96 dB, or 1 watt for only 90 dB (it comes to the same thing). But, that's only 96 dB at 4 watts.  Moving through the "double the wattage for every 3 dB of increase," we get:

At 4 Meters:

 4 watts   96 dB

8 watts    99 dB

16 watts 102 dB

32 watts  105 dB ... reference level for instantaneous peaks for THX through main speakers (not the sub).  You might have about a 3 dB safety margin with the Yamaha.  See below.

64 watts   108 dB

 

But, it is not quite that simple. 1) How long are these ("instantaneous") peaks?  An amp that could easily handle a 2 millisecond peak might see a 200 millisecond peak as challenging, and a broad, 2 second peak as more like a sustained sound.  2) THX themselves measured 108 dB peaks for The Empire Strikes Back, way back in 1980 (not counting what went through the subwoofers).  Paul W. Klipsch, who used to record live orchestras, said, "You need 115 dB peaks at your ears to capture the blood stirring climaxes of a symphony orchestra."  These were probably fairly "instantaneous" peaks.

 

Coming back to Earth, the chart above indicates that in an average room, you would need 32 watts (without bass boost).   The 96 dB @ 2.83 V @ 1 Meter sensitivity is very close to the sensitivity of the Heresy.  An old Dope from Hope paper (Vol 16, No. 1, January 1977) rates the Heresy as needing 45 watts to produce 105 dB, average level, at 8 Ohms, midband, in a typical listening room of 3,000 cu. ft. R =200.  So, since both 45 watts and 32 watts are below your 60 watts RMS power per channel, you would probably be O.K. with the Yamaha -- but no guarantees. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi @garyrc,

 

The acreage of my room is 3300 cu.ft (ft3).

I like the pop, acoustic, country and instrumental music.

The distance between me and speaker is 6ft.

 

Do you think with 60 Watts, Will it is ok with my room and my music ?

 

 

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I admit I'm a wattage and power nube.  The answers so far just confuse me.

 

I have a 125 Watt x 7 channel receiver from Denon.  I'd like to get the rp-160M speakers.  The simple question is: Is that a good pairing or is the amp too powerful for these speakers?

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2 hours ago, Explorz said:

I admit I'm a wattage and power nube.  The answers so far just confuse me.

 

I have a 125 Watt x 7 channel receiver from Denon.  I'd like to get the rp-160M speakers.  The simple question is: Is that a good pairing or is the amp too powerful for these speakers? 

Definitely not too powerful for the RP-160Ms.  I am guessing your Denon is factory spec'd at 125 x7 which really means 125w/channel with 2 channels driven.

 

What model Denon do you have?

 

Bill

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2 hours ago, Explorz said:

I have a 125 Watt x 7 channel receiver from Denon.  I'd like to get the rp-160M speakers.  The simple question is: Is that a good pairing or is the amp too powerful for these speakers?

No the amp is not too powerful for those speakers, but let me ask you this:

 

Are you interested in those exact speakers because you think they are the ones which exactly match the power requirements?  If so, I encourage you to expand your choice of speakers, ie, go bigger.

 

 Do you have a budget, where in your system will you use them (L/C/R or surrounds) and will they be mainly music or TV/movies?  What is your current setup?

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31 minutes ago, willland said:

Definitely not too powerful for the RP-160Ms.  I am guessing your Denon is factory spec'd at 125 x7 which really means 125w/channel with 2 channels driven.

 

What model Denon do you have?

 

Bill

Yes, Bill.  I think you are right.  On further research I believe that it powers at 90 watts driving 2 channels.  It is the AVR S930H.

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20 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

No the amp is not too powerful for those speakers, but let me ask you this:

 

Are you interested in those exact speakers because you think they are the ones which exactly match the power requirements?  If so, I encourage you to expand your choice of speakers, ie, go bigger.

 

 Do you have a budget, where in your system will you use them (L/C/R or surrounds) and will they be mainly music or TV/movies?  What is your current setup?

No, I wasn't choosing these based on power matching.  That question came up for me after I had decided on these.  I want bookshelf speakers and these are reviewed as being awesome for both music and visual media.  Mainly movies.  I already have the atmos enabled RP-140SA speakers to go on top of these as my front speakers. I also already have a center and surround speakers.  I'm just upgrading my front speakers.  I don't have room for floor standing speakers.

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1 minute ago, Explorz said:

No, I wasn't choosing these based on power matching.  That question came up for me after I had decided on these.

In that case, your Denon should be nicely matched power-wise to the RP-160M for L/R and the rest of your setup.   I think you are good to go.

 

@willland just upstream ^^^ gave an excellent explanation of how the power in a 125 wpc AVR gets diffused when more speakers are added.  There is just no way your 125 watt AVR can overdrive your Atmos setup which is probably 5.1.2.

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6 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

In that case, your Denon should be nicely matched power-wise to the RP-160M for L/R and the rest of your setup.   I think you are good to go.

 

@willland just upstream ^^^ gave an excellent explanation of how the power in a 125 wpc AVR gets diffused when more speakers are added.  There is just no way your 125 watt AVR can overdrive your Atmos setup which is probably 5.1.2.

Yes.  5.1.2.  I don't think that with that receiver I can add surround back and keep the atmos enabled upfiring speakers.  Right now the atmos enabled modules get plugged into the rear surround posts at the receiver and the receiver is programmed to recognize them as front atmos enabled modules.  I don't see a way to do 7.1.2.

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I run a Denon 80 WPC and have 4 towers hooked up to it, No Sub.

I have plenty of power and great dynamics but my room is a little smaller.

Denon is a quality AVR.  Just don't over do it.

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Just now, rebuy said:

I run a Denon close to that one and have 4 towers hooked up to it, No Sub.

I have plenty of power and great dynamics but my room is a little smaller.

Denon is a quality AVR.  Just don't over do it.

I was asking in the other direction.  I wasn't asking about if the receiver had enough power.

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1 minute ago, Explorz said:

I was asking in the other direction.  I wasn't asking about if the receiver had enough power.

I can't read.

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3 hours ago, Explorz said:

I admit I'm a wattage and power nube.  The answers so far just confuse me.

 

I have a 125 Watt x 7 channel receiver from Denon.  I'd like to get the rp-160M speakers.  The simple question is: Is that a good pairing or is the amp too powerful for these speakers?

 

3 minutes ago, rebuy said:

I can't read. 

You read just fine.  :)  There were two posters we were responding to, the Original Poster and @Explorz.

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People get caught up in the "Numbers" game.

Anyone that thinks they pump 10 to 50 watts into a loudspeaker all day

is fooling themselves.

Most listening is done with very small power amounts

until high peaks are required. 

Anyone who has power meters knows this.

I'm more interested in amperage than watts anyway.

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People overthink this in my opinion.  You can get most any receiver and it will sound great on these.  I had them on a Marantz slim line receiver with 45 watts and never felt the need to get anything else.  That was in a very large 31x32 room too, with bass heavy rap.  Most anything you can pick will have more power than that.  If you really run out of power with an AVR on these things then you should just get bigger speakers.  

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1 hour ago, rebuy said:

I'm more interested in amperage than watts anyway.

😖May the coulombs be with you.

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15 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

People overthink this in my opinion.  You can get most any receiver and it will sound great on these.  I had them on a Marantz slim line receiver with 45 watts and never felt the need to get anything else.  That was in a very large 31x32 room too, with bass heavy rap.  Most anything you can pick will have more power than that.  If you really run out of power with an AVR on these things then you should just get bigger speakers.  

Reasonable advice.  

You can get better sound out of much more costly components (last 10% for 5 times the money) but from the wattage side this is correct though @rebuy has a point, get something with some current drive.

 

 

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