vincer12 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Hi Im not sure where I should be asking this question, its really more for Klipsch speaker makers and designers. The question I have is why do the $1000 each speakers have such bad fequency response in compairision to the smaller and cheaper speakers. Here is what I mean: the $279 each RB 81 II has a frequency response of 44Hz-24KHz ± 3dB. The $1000 each Hersey III s have a frequency reponse of 58Hz – 20kHz. and it has a 12" woofer, that makes zero sense to me. And the Hersey have 3 times larger cabinets. The La Scala II s have a 15" woofer and a frequency response of only 51Hz – 17kHz +/– 4dB and it is in a huge cabinet and they cost $4000 each. So your telling me that the tiny little 8" woofer speakers have a better frequency response at $279 than a speaker with a horn loaded 15" speaker costing thousands more? The klipsch Horns cost $6000 each but the frequency response is only 33Hz – 17kHz. I personaly own a pair of R28F speakers and I love them , they have almost the same frequency repsonse 35Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB as the klipsch Horns. The R28F cost only $450ea but the horns cost $6000 ea. I know the horns have a higher SENSITIVITY 105dB @ 2.83V / 1m. but the frequency response is barely lower than the 450$ R28F with a SENSITIVITY 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m . I just trying to say that for the money you get a better frequency response with the cheaper smaller speakers and it should for sure be the other way around! Please dont get me wrong, I love the sound of my klipsch speakers and I would like to get a pair of the larger speakers, but how do I justify buying larger more expensive speakers with worse frequency response. I know you are not the ones I should be asking these question too but I dont see a way to contact the makers or designers of the speakers anywhere on the website or on this forum. Please forward this to the makers and designers so they can hopefully answer my questions. Or if you have a way of contacting the design department please forward that information to me. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrofan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Listen to a pair of lascalas or khorns and see if you still feel that the frequency response makes those smaller speakers better. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincer12 Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) I would love to listen to them but in my area the only place that carries Klipsch speakers doesnt stock any of the heritage line of speakers due to the cost and low demand. Edited May 25, 2018 by vincer12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Frequency response is not the best measure of merit (MOM) to use for deciding on loudspeaker quality...is what Mr. Nitrofan is saying. As you increasingly understand what makes loudspeakers sound good or not so good, you'll be using measures of merit other than the ends of their frequency response (high and low), such as: frequency response flatness/frequency, freedom from various distortion measures (harmonic, compression, modulation, phase/impulse, etc.), more consistent directionality/polar coverage (horizontal vertical) vs. frequency, and indirect measures, such as sensitivity or efficiency, which tell you how well the loudspeakers play when playing the most dynamic types of music genres at closer to real concert level. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endo Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 7 hours ago, nitrofan said: Listen to a pair of lascalas or khorns and see if you still feel that the frequency response makes those smaller speakers better. ^Yes, what he said. PWK once remarked--"Miniaturized bass speakers have been attempted but so far no one has invented a miniature 32-foot wave length." Hence, the impressive scale of Klipsch horn-loaded bass bins. Physics won't be cheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 To the OP: Vincer12, first off, welcome to the forum. Find someone local, maybe a member of this, or another such forum, with a pair of LaScalas and I am sure they would fit you in for an audition. It is the kind of experience those that have like to share. The bottom line is the higher the “sensitivity” the better EVERYTHING sounds. What is the equation? A 3db increase is double the power. That means, in a LaScala at 51 hz, -4db down from 105db (or 101db) you are getting FOUR times the punch in the chest than with the RP28’s at -3db down from 98db (or 95db). 6db of difference is FOUR times the volume at the same given power. And that doesn’t even take into account the “MOM” (measure of merit), mentioned above, afforded by horn loaded woofers. Speed, detail, and lack of distortion found in all direct radiators. (I can no longer stand the sound of my subs if I can hear them.) The theory will ALL make sense with a practical example. And then it becomes very hard to live without. A man who has seen the truth cannot unlearn it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 [OF COURSE, the characteristics of loudspeakers overlap, and several are highly correlated] If I had to rank order the characteristics of a loudspeaker in order of importance, the ranking would look something like this: MOST IMPORTANT Low Distortion Dynamic Range Tonality (instruments recognizable and both pleasant and realistic) Resolution of detail. Imaging Frequency response LEAST IMPORTANT That's why I ended up with Klipschorns, and why, if I started over, I would probably end up with Klipsch Jubilee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 One phrase. "Proudly hand crafted in the USA". More specifically, Hope, Arkansas. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 17 hours ago, vincer12 said: Please dont get me wrong, I love the sound of my klipsch speakers and I would like to get a pair of the larger speakers, but how do I justify buying larger more expensive speakers with worse frequency response. I know you are not the ones I should be asking these question too but I dont see a way to contact the makers or designers of the speakers anywhere on the website or on this forum. Please forward this to the makers and designers so they can hopefully answer my questions. Or if you have a way of contacting the design department please forward that information to me. Thank You Dynamics, loudness, mid-range that blows away RBs, and more alive sounding with the Heresy. You will not get those with the rb81 with a 20 watt amp. You need to listen to both side by side, then decide which makes more sense. You may not cherish what the Heresy will give over the RB series though the RB, particularly floor standers, but you have to be the judge, particularly in the cost area. RBs are very good so you will really need to nit pick presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Your chasing numbers using your head. If you use your ears instead you will find your answer. When I was younger I felt the same way you did but now being old I know better. Frequency response of speakers is measured in an anechoic chamber and the numbers are going to be entirely different in your room and for that matter varies with each persons room environment. PWK said it best, 'music is dynamics' and that is where horns shine. I should add, frequency response is one tool to use when designing a speaker and a important one but the final decision before releasing a speaker is a listening panel, or rather should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Welcome. You're asking a reasonable question in the right place of the right people. You’re also getting accurate information. As in most things in life, there is not a direct correlation of quantity (in this case, frequency respondse numbers) and quality. The high efficiency, dynamics, and low distortion of larger Heritage speakers result in sound quality smaller speakers cannot hope to match. What is your area? Perhaps real speakers are closer than you think. Nearby forum members may be willing to share their frequency response challenged Heitage systems with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincer12 Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks Everyone! If you know anyone in the midwest near Missouri (getting ready to move to the St Louis area) I would love to hear a pair of Klipschorns, La Scalas, or Kornwalls for that matter any of the Heritage Line of speakers. Like I was saying in my first post I love the Klipsch speakers I have and if the Heritage Line sounds even better than the speakers I already have Im sure I would Love them TOO! I have a called all of the shops near me (currently in the small town of Columbia MO) that carry Klipsch and they all have the Reference Line but none carry the Heritage Line. Very unfortunate for me! Thanks vincer12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codewritinfool Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks Everyone! If you know anyone in the midwest near Missouri (getting ready to move to the St Louis area) I would love to hear a pair of Klipschorns, La Scalas, or Kornwalls for that matter any of the Heritage Line of speakers. Like I was saying in my first post I love the Klipsch speakers I have and if the Heritage Line sounds even better than the speakers I already have Im sure I would Love them TOO! I have a called all of the shops near me (currently in the small town of Columbia MO) that carry Klipsch and they all have the Reference Line but none carry the Heritage Line. Very unfortunate for me! Thanks vincer12I’m in West County. Hit me up when you get to STL. My workshop is tiny but the Khorns are incredible. Should have some La Scalas running too soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincer12 Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Awesome Ill be moving in the next 2 weeks, I will hit you up for sure Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The late and great DJK (Dennis Kleitsch) would often post this 30Hz two cubic foot box comparison A 2 cu ft 2nd order sealed box with an F3 of 30Hz can only be 0.18% efficient (84.55dB). A 2 cu ft 4th order vented box with an F3 of 30Hz can only be 0.36% efficient (87.56dB). A 2 cu ft 6th order vented box with an F3 of 30Hz can only be 0.90% efficient (91.54dB) so one could have a 2 cubic foot vented box with Qts 0.31 woofer and outboard underdamped 2nd order highpass filter with Q=2, and 6dB boost ~32Hz. That would apply boost where the system can take it and not raise input power much overall, plus the LF rolloff below useful bandwidth keeps junk from modulating the cone. Electro-Voice had such systems which they called the "Interface" series and the Interface A had an 8" woofer and 12" passive radiator, plus an outboard EQ box to go between preamp and power amplifier or within a tape loop on integrates amplifier or receiver. I think by relaxing the low frequency cutoff a half octave, the same 6th order assisted reflex box could be 6dB more efficient - am I correct? Perhaps that box would not be far off from the old Cerwin Vega S1 FWIW, here's a Dayton PA310-8 rated 96dB in a vented Heresy I box , 2 pi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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