New owner of vintage La Scala seeking advice

[audiojerry]

Has anyone gone with the ALKENG Super AA-X crossover exchange for $99?

 

Seems like a reasonable price to start the ball rolling on my upgrade path.

 

PS: I never realized there was such a large and active Klipsch community. I am tickled pink!

Edited November 8, 2018 by audiojerry

[Panelhead]

  Never heard of this. Sounds too inexpensive. 

[Shakeydeal]

Just to be clear, "clap echo" is not the same as early reflection. You aren't deadening the room with this treatment.

 

Shakey

[baron167]

7 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  Never heard of this. Sounds too inexpensive. 

Ha! Well, look into ALK Engineering and report back, please.

[ricktate]

Make sure all the horn screws are tight. Make sure the mid driver is tight on the horn take it off and check the washer there also. I would rebuild the crossovers to a type A make sure you unscrew and retighten all connections on the crossover. I painted my mid horns inside and out with rustoleom enamel paint. I sanded all casting seams also used the liquid paint its messy and hard to get into the throat but it was worth the trouble. 

Not sure what your using for source preamp or amp but we have found out the LaScala is some what picky with the stuff its hooked to. I love them with my 1975 HK430 twin powered reciever 25 watts..lol. 

The cabinet sides do flex a bit I had to re-veneer mine cause I had 3 boys. Since I veneered the outsides the flex is gone they are solid now. 

They definitely need to be towed in and in the corners. The 4500hz crossover mod is good idea I did that on my K-horns helps a lot.

Might even take the woofer access panel off and check gasket on the panel and woofer screws.

[ricktate]

Type A 

[ricktate]

4500 hz mod with oil caps and Erse super Q inductor.

[audiojerry]

5 hours ago, ricktate said:

Make sure all the horn screws are tight. Make sure the mid driver is tight on the horn take it off and check the washer there also. I would rebuild the crossovers to a type A make sure you unscrew and retighten all connections on the crossover.

It looks like you used type AA components to rebuild the type A?  

I painted my mid horns inside and out with rustoleom enamel paint. I sanded all casting seams also used the liquid paint its messy and hard to get into the throat but it was worth the trouble.

Did your mid horn treatment help with resonance or the squakiness? 

Not sure what your using for source preamp or amp but we have found out the LaScala is some what picky with the stuff its hooked to. I love them with my 1975 HK430 twin powered reciever 25 watts..lol. 

I have a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium integrated - about 30wpc with Gold Lion KT88.

The cabinet sides do flex a bit I had to re-veneer mine cause I had 3 boys. Since I veneered the outsides the flex is gone they are solid now. 

 Beautiful looking cabs. How thick was the veneer?

They definitely need to be towed in and in the corners. The 4500hz crossover mod is good idea I did that on my K-horns helps a lot.

I read that my K-77 tweeter can't handle frequencies below 6000hz.

Might even take the woofer access panel off and check gasket on the panel and woofer screws.

Woofer access panel? Looking at the cabs, there does not seem to be an easy way to get at the woofers. Any thoughts about using braces on the 'V' opening at the front?

 

 

Those are nice tips, Rick. Some simple, inexpensive things to improve sound.  

 

Shakey, thanks for your clarification on room treatment. What was your source for purchasing?

[JohnA]

Mr. Paul's mouth bracing.  Note that the braces are not centered.  I would have done this if I'd discovered the resonance before I had mine refinished.  Yours are striking and quite attractive for raw birch.  I'd be likely to just finish them with linseed oil or satin poly.  

 

 

There are lots of mods that provide genuine improvements, the bass horn braces would be one.  New caps *IF* your speaker need them would be another.  i just picked up a '68 H700 (Heresy) that did not need caps, though my '67 did.  Let's prove they are in proper shape before heading down the rabbit hole.  Checking ALL of the connections and the seal on the bottom access to the woofer should be checked, especially with your concern about bass output.  Later, there excellent mods for the squawker horn and other areas.  When you get around to replacing the capacitors, use film and foil.  I have used metallized foil caps and have been satisfied, but film and foil is better and is what Klipsch used.  You don't want to back up. 

 

Your solid wood walls are HIGHLY reflective at all frequencies.  The insulation behind them will contribute nothing in audio frequencies because of the stiffness of the wood.  It will be especially reflective in the middle ranges, contributing to your description of bright, hard sound.  Compared to my 20 year experience with La Scalas, your room may be entirely the cause.  Something as simple as Persian rugs (or a velvet Elvis, hee hee) hung in the right place can be enough to kill the first reflection/reinforcement in the midrange.  I'm sure you can find a thick tribal style rug or 3. 

 

Changes to the room will always dwarf "improvements" to the speakers. 

 

[JohnA]

1 hour ago, audiojerry said:

Those are nice tips, Rick. Some simple, inexpensive things to improve sound.  

 

Shakey, thanks for your clarification on room treatment. What was your source for purchasing?

 

Your La Scalas have K-77 tweeters.  They are E-V T-35s that carry a power rating or 1 watts continuous/10 watts program/120 watts peak above 3500 Hz with an unspecified crossover slope, but surely 18 dB or more/octave, like the Type AA and later networks have.  I do not run K-77-Ms any more and other tweeters are more robust, but, especially the later K-77-Ms can be safely run at 3500 Hz and above, if you limit the power sent to them. 

 

[ricktate]

[ricktate]

[ricktate]

Bottom panel comes off....carful the seal may be stuck and hard to get off...I would scrap it all off put on new seal. Check all woofer screws and wiring.

[Panelhead]

11 hours ago, baron167 said:

Ha! Well, look into ALK Engineering and report back, please.

  I had trouble finding this service listed. This is a no brainer for the price.  99.00 and round trip shipping is cheap to have refreshed crossovers.

  It is fortunate that ALK, BEC, Dean, Dave A and others provide services to not only restore, but maybe improve on these speakers.

  

  

[baron167]

  I had trouble finding this service listed. This is a no brainer for the price.  99.00 and round trip shipping is cheap to have refreshed crossovers.
  It is fortunate that ALK, BEC, Dean, Dave A and others provide services to not only restore, but maybe improve on these speakers.
  
  

I haven't seen anything ALK hasn't paved the road for. He's at the top of the pyramid imho. The others are copying his research and implementations into real world test scenarios. In other words, they are riding his coat tails and exploiting his generously shares knowledge.


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[Deang]

I primarily build Klipsch designs. Did Al design those?

 

The $99 Super AA is a good value, but it is not the Super-X. The Super-X uses some different component values and provides 1dB increments of attenuation. I also build at a much higher quality level. He enjoys conflating the two because he knows it causes me some grief and confuses the customer. 

 

The idea of using a swamping resistor with an autotransformer was used by JBL thirty years before Al did it. The concept was originally proposed here for Klipsch loudspeakers by Dennis Kleitsch (DJK). It is easy for Al to deny this, since all of those old posts were lost when the forum software was upgraded. Dennis was always very irritated by this.  

 

The Super AA, Gentle Slope Networks, AP12-AK3, and the 3619-ET would not have come to fruition without me - those were my ideas. 

 

Al is brilliant (and yes, he generously shares knowledge), but he will not give credit where credit is due. Greg Roberts of Volti has the same problem. 

[Thaddeus Smith]

7 minutes ago, Deang said:

Greg Roberts of Volti has the same problem. 

 

[Full Range]

52 minutes ago, Deang said:

I primarily build Klipsch designs. Did Al design those?

 

The $99 Super AA is a good value, but it is not the Super-X. The Super-X uses some different component values and provides 1dB increments of attenuation. I also build at a much higher quality level. He enjoys conflating the two because he knows it causes me some grief and confuses the customer. 

 

The idea of using a swamping resistor with an autotransformer was used by JBL thirty years before Al did it. The concept was originally proposed here for Klipsch loudspeakers by Dennis Kleitsch (DJK). It is easy for Al to deny this, since all of those old posts were lost when the forum software was upgraded. Dennis was always very irritated by this.  

 

The Super AA, Gentle Slope Networks, AP12-AK3, and the 3619-ET would not have come to fruition without me - those were my ideas. 

 

Al is brilliant (and yes, he generously shares knowledge), but he will not give credit where credit is due. Greg Roberts of Volti has the same problem. 

 

Totaly agree 

All designs are re engineered from the original concept developed many decades ago 

 

Re engineering an audio design is just a progression to accomodate the material its needs to reproduce faithfully 

Music style / genre has changed from Classical to modern electronic and the sound wave spectrum along with it 

 

Lower bass is one example 

 

 

[garyrc]

7 hours ago, JohnA said:

 

Your La Scalas have K-77 tweeters.  They are E-V T-35s that carry a power rating or 1 watts continuous/10 watts program/120 watts peak above 3500 Hz with an unspecified crossover slope, but surely 18 dB or more/octave, like the Type AA and later networks have.  I do not run K-77-Ms any more and other tweeters are more robust, but, especially the later K-77-Ms can be safely run at 3500 Hz and above, if you limit the power sent to them. 

 

 

I like the sound of the K-77 tweeters.  They are adequately smooth, and even smoother with Audyssey. 

 

Klipschorns, since about 2002, use a 4,500 Hz crossover with K-77s.  The crossover is 36 dB per octave, for the high pass into the tweeter, as opposed to the 6 dB per octave Klipsch used to use with the former 6,000 Hz crossover.  EV crossed it over at 3,500 Hz at 12 dB per octave.  PWK found it would do fine at 1 watt (producing 104 dB at 1 meter) and would take brief pulses at 4 watts.  The common way to blow them out was to use a test tone which was accidentally at too high a volume, to fast froward a poorly designed tape recorder producing too loud a squeal, or with outrageously loud music, especially electronic.  I use them in a home theater, typically at 5 dB below Reference Level (i.e., 100 dB peaks) with no problem.

[Deang]

All true, but by today’s standards, it’s a poor excuse for a tweeter.