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ODS123

Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

Interesting. I have always thought it was the cabinet being excited by that frequency.   So if it is the horn design, the new La Scala isn't that much different in bass bin design (horn configuration) from the La Scala I to alleviate this problem then? 

The new one is one inch thick. I believe it does not make a difference whether it is MDF like Klipsch OEM or Baltic Birch which would be my choice since both will tame that cabinet.

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1 minute ago, Dave A said:

MCM 1900 three way stack is my current system. I like to buy and fix old speakers so I have gone through a number of them in the last few years.

Well then you are probably NOT going to run into the 150hz hump then, are you?  I do not have this problem with Forte I or Heresy III.   It is not as if you are going to hear it with any and all Klipsch speakers.  Looking at the bracing on the MCM, I don't think they are prone to 7dB humps in the bass bin.  I think the experiment would be moot. But still looking forward to what you hear.  Maybe you have access to La Scala I or Belle to compare this song with.  That would be informative. 

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4 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Interesting. I have always thought it was the cabinet being excited by that frequency.   So if it is the horn design, the new La Scala isn't that much different in bass bin design (horn configuration) from the La Scala I to alleviate this problem then? 

 

Same horn, different materials.

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

Well then you are probably NOT going to run into the 150hz hump then, are you?  I do not have this problem with Forte I or Heresy III.   It is not as if you are going to hear it with any and all Klipsch speakers.  Looking at the bracing on the MCM, I don't think they are prone to 7dB humps in the bass bin.  I think the experiment would be moot. But still looking forward to what you hear.  Maybe you have access to La Scala I or Belle to compare this song with.  That would be informative. 

I do have some old beater LSI's that toured with the Oak Ridge Boys to try this on. Really hammered on but still sound good and a real testament to Baltic Birch's durability.

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Well before I would sink almost $10K into La Scala IIs. I would have to find someone who owns them locally and take my Me And Armini CD with me!  

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14 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Not much, it is evident to me around 70-75 dB.    It does not change much in magnitude as you get louder, it stays about proportionally the same. But then again I NEVER listen to my music any louder than 90dB.  

Ok, I hear it and its awful.  Geez, the vocals were clean and almost wet sounding, but that thump was horrid.  Never heard a buzz like that in any content before. Its interesting its not as pronounced in a non horn loaded bass cab. At least we know the horn loaded bass cabs are reproducing what is coming through. I didn't put enough power through it to say my cab was actually resonating, just reproducing what was there. I think thats pretty unique.  I hear read flutter from Stan Getz, Coltrane, etc especially from the old recordings. That's something funky, whether mixing, drop tuned guitar or dropped and plucking the string, something is a miss there.

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Just now, Dave A said:

I do have some old beater LSI's that toured with the Oak Ridge Boys to try this on. Really hammered on but still sound good and a real testament to Baltic Birch's durability.

Well then, that would be great.  Maybe at least you can perceive enough difference when the acoustic guitar on the song Birds as the low E and A string are plucked throughout the entire song, but evident immediately that you can report back that the character of the tone of that guitar is different between your two speakers.  To me it is such a glaring problem it masks all enjoyment of that cut for me.  And as I said, I hear it on other songs too, but this one is a dead giveaway.  It is as if the resonance of the guitar, the microphone used to record it and the Belles all work together to exaggerate that 120-150hz area making it stick out like a sore thumb. 

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ODS123 - kink56

Hmmm.  Letters and numbers

 

kink56 refers to his garage system, but not his main system.  Hmmm.  Wonder why and what that might be?

 

kink56 doesn’t include Cornwalls in his okay speakers list.  Too obvious?

 

Where is ODS123 lately anyway?  I miss him.  No reports on his Cornies either.  I hope they are okay.  I worry about them.

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3 minutes ago, Max2 said:

Ok, I hear it and its awful.  Geez, the vocals were clean and almost wet sounding, but that thump was horrid.  Never heard a buzz like that in any content before. Its interesting its not as pronounced in a non horn loaded bass cab. At least we know the horn loaded bass cabs are reproducing what is coming through. I didn't put enough power through it to say my cab was actually resonating, just reproducing what was there. I think thats pretty unique.  I hear read flutter from Stan Getz, Coltrane, etc especially from the old recordings. That's something funky, whether mixing, drop tuned guitar or dropped and plucking the string, something is a miss there.

Wow, that means I am NOT out of my freaking mind after all!   Well, it is totally tolerable on my Forte I and my Heresy III.  But once your attention is called to it, even on those speakers the memory of how it sounded on the Belles taints the experience.     That is a good recording to point out the problem with the Belles, where on other songs it might not be as apparent.     I thought that a lot of drums sounded like cardboard boxes on the Belles as well.  

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1 minute ago, Tizman said:

ODS123 - kink56

Hmmm.  Letters and numbers

 

kink56 refers to his garage system, but not his main system.  Hmmm.  Wonder why and what that might be?

 

kink56 doesn’t include Cornwalls in his okay speakers list.  Too obvious?

 

Where is ODS123 lately anyway?  I miss him.  No reports on his Cornies either.  I hope they are okay.  I worry about them.

 

Probably got his new non linear cheap receiver i recommended and putting on his listening ears.

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

Wow, that means I am NOT out of my freaking mind after all!   Well, it is totally tolerable on my Forte I and my Heresy III.  But once your attention is called to it, even on those speakers the memory of how it sounded on the Belles taints the experience.     That is a good recording to point out the problem with the Belles, where on other songs it might not be as apparent.     I thought that a lot of drums sounded like cardboard boxes on the Belles as well.  

 

You're probably just used to the fuzzy sounding direct radiating loudspeakers.

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2 minutes ago, Tizman said:

ODS123 - kink56

Hmmm.  Letters and numbers

 

kink56 refers to his garage system, but not his main system.  Hmmm.  Wonder why and what that might be?

 

kink56 doesn’t include Cornwalls in his okay speakers list.  Too obvious?

 

Where is ODS123 lately anyway?  I miss him.  No reports on his Cornies either.  I hope they are okay.  I worry about them.

Do you belong to any conspiracy forums? I think I have my main system in my profile page, no? (I am not sure myself without looking, which I will after this post)  I owned Cornwalls back in 1979 and all I remember is I listened to Heresy, Cornwall, La Scala and K-horns.  This was BEFORE I knew how to set up speakers to image properly.   I liked the K-horns but could not afford them. The Heresy was okay but no bass. And the La Scalas sounded harsh and "raw" to me. So I bought the Cornwalls.  I could not tell you if they imaged well because of the way I set them up. I only had them for one year. Rogers Studio One replaced them and I considered them quite a step up. I have owned them up until about 5 years ago. (the Rogers).

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Yep, my main and my bedroom system is listed on my profile page.    Do you need to know my computer/office system too? How about my car radio?

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Oh here is a list of all the stuff I remember ever owning, in no particular order:

 

 

 

VM Model 562 record player

Sherwood S-7900A receiver

Dual 1220Q turntable/Empire cartridge

DLK-3 speakers. 

Pioneer SX-880 receiver

Kenwood KA-8100 integrated amp

Klipsch Cornwalls

SOTA Sapphire turntable

Sumiko MMT tonearm

Sumiko FT-3 tonearm

Eminent Technology airbearing linear tonearm

Grado TLZ-V cartridge

Crown SL-2 preamp (times 4)

Rogers Studio 1 (times 2 sets)

ENTEC SW-1 subwoofer

Threshold FET2 preamp

Threshold S300 II power amp (times 3)

Spectral DMC-5 preamp

Perreaux Industries PMF-2350 power amp

Spectral DMC-6A preamp

Moore-Franklin Magnus preamp

PS Audio 4.5 preamp

PS Audio 5.0 preamp

ProAc EBT (times two sets)

Electron Kinetics Eagle 2A power amp (times 3)

Electron Kinetics Eagle 2C prime

ENTEC L-F10 subwoofer

ENTEC L-F20 subwoofer

Paradigm Studio 20 V3 speakers

NHT Super One speakers

NHT Super Zero speakers

NHT 2.5 speakers

Klipsch SB-3 speakers

Crown PL-3 amp

Crown PL-4 amp

NAD C372

NAD 312

NAD 3155

NAD M3

NAD C326BEE

NAD T-753

Infinity BU-8 subwoofer

Allison Acoustics AL-10 subwoofer

Polk Audio PSW-10 subwoofer

Klipsch SW-311 subwoofer

Magnavox CDB-650 cd player

Philips CD960 (times 2)

I had a LOT of CD players. 
Rega Apollo

Pioneer Elite DV70avi DVD 

Oppo BDP-95

Marantz CDR-510 cd recorder

Marantz PMD-331 cd player

Marantz PMD-371 cd changer

Sony CDP-322M

Sony CDP-CE375

Tascam CD RW900SL (times two)

Tascam CD 200

Tascam CD 200SB

Tascam CD-355 changer

Onkyo DX-390 CD changer

Onkyo recorder

Teac CD P1500 CD changer

Teac CD P1100

Klipsch Forte I

Belle Klipsch

Xiang Sheng 728A tube preamp

Klipsch Forte III 

Klipsch Heresy II

Klipsch Heresy III

Threshold FET One

ProAc Response 1S

ProAc Response D2

Proton AA-1150

Proton D1200

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35 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Its the horn design and not the cabinet, the cabinet of the La Scala has its own known issue.

 

Exactamundo.

 

When Roy developed the "JubeScala"  (LaScala bottom with K402 on top) he also created a profile to go into an active crossover.

 

As it happens, he also slipped an additional PEQ in there (180 Hz Q=12, -4 db) to help tame those sidewalls from resonating.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Well before I would sink almost $10K into La Scala IIs. I would have to find someone who owns them locally and take my Me And Armini CD with me!  

 

Having owned LaScalas since 1979 (bought them new) and having heard the LaScala II, my opinion is, the II's "sound" like they have a full (additional) octave of bass.  When I asked about it to some of their engineers, he (Jim Hunter) admitted to me that the same output is there in the original LaScala, it's just masked by all the vibrations of the sidewalls.....if you could tame those, you'd hear that lower sound that the II's have.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Wow, that means I am NOT out of my freaking mind after all!   Well, it is totally tolerable on my Forte I and my Heresy III.  But once your attention is called to it, even on those speakers the memory of how it sounded on the Belles taints the experience.     That is a good recording to point out the problem with the Belles, where on other songs it might not be as apparent.     I thought that a lot of drums sounded like cardboard boxes on the Belles as well.  

No its there.  I don't know if they recorded with a pickup in the acoustic or used a mic, but his hammer on with  A7 I think is very harmonic as well as much more of his or her finger work in the song. That guitar could very well have a nasty resonation.  The Tune finishes out much better than its starts.  

 

As far as the Belle and the LS, theyre really not full range speakers in sorts IMO. The LaScala was built straight up for P.A. action, or at least that the last story I heard.  The Belle is a spruced up version with a shorter cab and shorter and more narrow mid horn for easier placement.   But if you can get over their shortcomings, the rest cant be touched by a lot of the very costly cream that is out there.  The Belle is better in a deeper room with its smaller mid horn, but the LaScala gets the full enchilada with the K-400 or 401.  Two LaScalas and a sub will trounce 90+% of the garb on the market.  What I listen to just cant be reproduced to my ears correctly without involving a horn.  The cycle response humps you mention that are actually in the K and the LS's and B's are there for a reason. I know someone really smart didn't want them there, but to gain on one side you have to subtract from the other and Im pretty sure he made the most sensible decision where he had to.

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30 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Well before I would sink almost $10K into La Scala IIs

 

Oh, and if you are actually debating that.....  then you would do yourself a favor to hear the Jubilee's.  Might even save some money.  (not sure today of actual street pricing of either so I might be out of bounds there)

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4 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

Having owned LaScalas since 1979 (bought them new) and having heard the LaScala II, my opinion is, the II's "sound" like they have a full (additional) octave of bass.  When I asked about it to some of their engineers, he (Jim Hunter) admitted to me that the same output is there in the original LaScala, it's just masked by all the vibrations of the sidewalls.....if you could tame those, you'd hear that lower sound that the II's have.

 

 

Those LSI's I had with the fiberglass on them made me pause just a bit before I sold them and kept the KP-450's. They were heavier on the side walls and it does make a big difference.

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Yes the two way Jubes are on my radar as well. Finding where to hear them would even be more rare than LS II I would think.      

I have very satisfactory subwoofers, so I am not concerned about bass extension.  But that 120-150hz  hump is a deal breaker!  I have been bored and unmoved by speakers before, but never offended as I was with the Belles before. 

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