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Bi-amping Power for Khorn Bass Bins


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How much power is needed to bi-amp the Klipschorn bass bin with a Class D amp?   Is too much power a detriment since a Class D amp has the highest distortion at lowest output.  The amp has to have enough headroom to play all types of music at respectable SPL's, generally 80 to maybe 92db.  A knowledgeable view is appreciated.

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23 hours ago, Audiophile53 said:

How much power is needed to bi-amp the Klipschorn bass bin with a Class D amp?   Is too much power a detriment since a Class D amp has the highest distortion at lowest output.  The amp has to have enough headroom to play all types of music at respectable SPL's, generally 80 to maybe 92db.  A knowledgeable view is appreciated.

WHY?? Unless you will be using a Yamaha, Xilica, etc. DSP Active Crossover instead of the the passive one in the Khorn, there is NO benefit to bi amping if you are still using the passive network. Going the active route allow you to introduce time delays in the mid and tweeter horns for greater phase coherence. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.

 

That being said, I used TI based chip amps on my Khorn Jubilees. They use a common/cheap 19 Volt Laptop power supply and are the size of two packs of cigarettes. They come with gain/volume controls which can be useful for having maximum rotational resolution on your pre amp volume control.

TI_TPA3116amps.jpg

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6 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

WHY?? Unless you will be using a Yamaha, Xilica, etc. DSP Active Crossover instead of the the passive one in the Khorn, there is NO benefit to bi amping if you are still using the passive network. Going the active route allow you to introduce time delays in the mid and tweeter horns for greater phase coherence. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

Sure there is a Big Benefit to Bi-amping. I use a 45 SET tube Amplifier on the Mid Range and Tweeters and have  500 watt per channel amp on my Khorn Bass BIn. Without Bi-amping I would not have enough Oomph for my Bass and my Amplifier would clip... Choosing a less pleasing amplifier for my Oris Horns is not an option I would like to take,  So, the Bi-amping has a HUGE Benefit for me.

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1 hour ago, Cut-Throat said:

 

 

Sure there is a Big Benefit to Bi-amping. I use a 45 SET tube Amplifier on the Mid Range and Tweeters and have  500 watt per channel amp on my Khorn Bass BIn. Without Bi-amping I would not have enough Oomph for my Bass and my Amplifier would clip... Choosing a less pleasing amplifier for my Oris Horns is not an option I would like to take,  So, the Bi-amping has a HUGE Benefit for me.

Huge is a relative term when you have a bass section that only needs 30 MILLIwatts to do 85 db at your ears. Are you using an active Xover or did you "split" your passive to do this? The amps I showed in the photos used to drive my Jubilees to 124 db levels and they are only about 30 Watts each channel. 5j00 Watts is overkill on any part of a Khorn, but whatever makes you boat float.

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On 5/7/2019 at 10:53 AM, kevinmi said:

1 watt will get you 104db, so you don't need gobs of power!

I agree. I have owned several of ALL the Klipsch models from Heritage to Pro, and consider 500 Watts in a home to be way overkill, but hey if the amp was cheap or free, why not? Just keep in mind that a K33 Voice Coil is rated at only 100 Watts and ANY driver starts to see thermal compression at 10% of it's power rating, which is why PWK used to use a 10 Watt Brook Amplifier for all his MONO demos. Add 3 db for Stereo.

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36 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Huge is a relative term when you have a bass section that only needs 30 MILLIwatts to do 85 db at your ears. Are you using an active Xover or did you "split" your passive to do this? The amps I showed in the photos used to drive my Jubilees to 124 db levels and they are only about 30 Watts each channel. 500 Watts is overkill on any part of a Khorn, but whatever makes you boat float.

 

2 hours ago, Cut-Throat said:

 

 

Sure there is a Big Benefit to Bi-amping. I use a 45 SET tube Amplifier on the Mid Range and Tweeters and have  500 watt per channel amp on my Khorn Bass BIn. Without Bi-amping I would not have enough Oomph for my Bassand my Amplifier would clip... Choosing a less pleasing amplifier for my Oris Horns is not an option I would like to take,  So, the Bi-amping has a HUGE Benefit for me.

If ANY 500 wpc amp which can POSSIBLY go into clipping trying to provide K-horns with "enough Oomph for my Bass" is, IMHO, a PISS-POORLY DESIGNED AMP TO BEGIN WITH!  Everything on the amp put together,:lights, meters circuitry, etc... (except what is actually NEEDED for the K-horn bass bin) will be pulling MORE power than the K-horns themselves need!  I would advise keeping that amp ONLY for your LESS-EFFICIENT Oris horns...and using something more conducive to the low-wattage the K-horn bass bin actually NEEDS!  That way you have far less of a chance to DESTROY those K-33 woofers!  REMEMBER...there is a difference between adding more wattage to achieve lower bass on and INEFFICIENT design...and remember that a horn lens design itself is what actually limits how deep it CAN GO before rolling off dramatically!  So pumping more watts into a K-horn is NOT the answer!...Pumping LESS into it is the way to go!

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My comprehension of what was said is that in providing the bass his SET amp clips and detracts from the highs, so he's using that amp only for the highs.  Not so much that he needs or uses all the power of the other amp for the bass, just relieving the SET of that duty.

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On 5/7/2019 at 8:45 AM, Audiophile53 said:

Is too much power a detriment since a Class D amp has the highest distortion at lowest output.

 

I guess it depends on the Class D implementation.  Sure, the distortion curve somewhat resembles a "loudness" compensation curve in shape, but as in all amplifiers the distortion is greatest by a huge margin as the upper power limit is reached.  Even if the low-power distortion level is ten times the mid-power level, it's less than a tenth of what was typically available when those speakers were designed.  A total non-issue which I wouldn't worry about.  I don't have bass horns but am happily driving my Forte 3s with NAD's version of Hypex Class D at any and all available levels. 

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2 hours ago, glens said:

My comprehension of what was said is that in providing the bass his SET amp clips and detracts from the highs, so he's using that amp only for the highs.  Not so much that he needs or uses all the power of the other amp for the bass, just relieving the SET of that duty.

Bingo, me too. And depending how dynamic the recording you are playing I could easily see clipping a 45 watt amplifier into a klipschorn. (does 45 SET amplifier mean 45 watts?) Oh jeesh just answered my own question with a little googling. Those amps are only a couple of watts! Therefore super easy to clip into the bass bin of the KHorn.

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15 hours ago, babadono said:

Those amps are only a couple of watts! Therefore super easy to clip into the bass bin of the KHorn.

I can run my Decware SE-84 amp at 1/3 volume and get 85db of room filling sound. It's only 1.8 watts and not super easy to clip!

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On 5/8/2019 at 6:53 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

WHY?? Unless you will be using a Yamaha, Xilica, etc. DSP Active Crossover instead of the the passive one in the Khorn, there is NO benefit to bi amping if you are still using the passive network. Going the active route allow you to introduce time delays in the mid and tweeter horns for greater phase coherence. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.

 

That being said, I used TI based chip amps on my Khorn Jubilees. They use a common/cheap 19 Volt Laptop power supply and are the size of two packs of cigarettes. They come with gain/volume controls which can be useful for having maximum rotational resolution on your pre amp volume control.

TI_TPA3116amps.jpg

Ummm...why the tape on the level controls? 

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