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avguytx

Adding sub(s) to Belle clones (version 2)

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I decided to start a new thread on this as the original doesn't work the same since we aren't in that house anymore.  Time to revisit this topic, and get it back on track, as we are moved into our new house now and I have most all of my gear upstairs.  I'll add some better pics of what the space looks like but just imagine it as your typical "over the garage room" that's right at 15 feet x 32 feet with 5 foot "knee walls" sloping up to an 8 foot ceiling.  It's not a perfect space but it's mine and I'll work with it.  I'm also not out for perfection as my hearing just doesn't allow for that anymore with tinnitus and the HF range rolling off fast after 12k or so.  I (we) had set this up quickly upstairs so things looked reasonable for the appraiser and not it too much of a mess. 

 

Currently, the Belle's are on the long wall towards the far end of the room with the right speaker being about 8 to 10 feet away from the corner.  Actually, they sound quite good like this and, as always, you can really tell what recordings shine and which don't.  The bass is quite surprising yet it's still rolled off more than I'd like and some music is non-existent so I will be building a horn loaded sup of some sorts in the near future.  I figure I'll knock the cabinets out while I'm building the garage cabinets as the sheets of plywood will already be there and sawdust being made.  Or, at least cut them out.  I do like those T18 subs that were done in another thread as I could do two of those and play around with placement.  Or, I do have the space to go larger with something like the THTLP.  I was trying to remember what the height was on those when stood up so it might could fit in the corner of the room.  I could also do the "coffee table" style but I have this thing about coffee tables being between the listening position and the speakers as I can tell when the sound is being blocked by it.  Plus, I will make use of both locations (like in pics) with one being for the Belle's and the other being for just general electronics and speakers I can swap around (Cerwin Vega VS-150's, Infinity Quantum 3's & RS-IIIb's, JBL L100t3's, and some smallish speakers).  Plus, who knows, I might do some sort of basic surround system as much as I could care less about it.  But, that would have to be done on the wall where the Belle's are as that's where the wires run up and over the ceiling already.

 

So there is the pair of T18 option which might be limited in the really low end range but apparently works well.  Cinema F20's seem to be quite large and I do want to be able to actually get them upstairs.  Then the THTLP tends to get good reviews here and around.  I'm not really worried about one being easier or harder to build, that's a moot point, really.  :)

 

Basic pics of room.  Please excuse the animals in the pics but they do enjoy music and were glad to come hang out in the new room.  (Pink Floyd freaks them out, of course)  The decorations are sparse at this point, too.  This is the Belle's on the long wall but at a so-so distance apart....maybe 10 feet center to center but have space to go farther apart.  There's maybe 8 feet from the edge of the right speaker to the corner.

 

20190527_180216-1024x576.jpg

 

 

 

And the short end of the room which is about 14' 6" wide, IIRC.  Belle's could easily go on this wall and would only be ran with the VTA ST-70 amplifier in 2-channel mode.  Other wall could be used for the other various things I might rotate around and ran off the Carver gear.

 

 

20190527_180504-1024x576.jpg

 

Shape of the actual room.  You can disregard those initial red & green thoughts of location.

 

image.png.6a290e167dd393e2c3161b6045d1fa31.png

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The Tuba 18 is not worth adding as it really does not dig much lower than your mains.

 

I suggest a 10" or better Table Tuba or THT in the corner and not the THTLP unless you plan on laying it down firing it into a corner, sloped ceilings are not the best place for the horn to exit.

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@jason str  What about standing it vertical but having the port at the bottom?  Seems that would be similar to it laying flat.  Not sure I want to have something as large as the THT upstairs....or need to rattle stuff off the walls. 

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The front firing THTLP will work if you have 6 + foot ceiling height.

 

Don't underestimate the Table Tuba as an option.

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4 hours ago, avguytx said:

Please excuse the animals in the pics

One of 'em has sneakers on:)

And no more lonely broom:wink:

Congrats on the new digs.

Now back to your sub thread.

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25 minutes ago, babadono said:

One of 'em has sneakers on:)

And no more lonely broom:wink:

Congrats on the new digs.

Now back to your sub thread.

 

Yep....the lonely broom is gone.  Well, it may have merged with some other of it's kind downstairs. lol  Thanks....it's good to finally be in there. 

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I can send build/design plans for every subwoofer ever conceived if you'd like, free and without copyright, trademark, or license. </snark>

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I need a tuba box plan for the Dayton audio rs5315HO-4 12” sub. I made for for the Dayton audio 15” mkII sub and it was crazy low. So if you have any plans for these driver that would be great. I also have some peerless 10” as well that I would like to try out



788ac270f35f2ec585620ad24888f01f.jpg8f17963af421cc5ca4e4832f1044e8b0.jpg


Dollar for dollar Klipsch has no equals
Name one other speaker company that can build a speaker and keep working like new after 45 plus years of service. Answer NO ONE !!!!!!

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5 hours ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

I can send build/design plans for every subwoofer ever conceived if you'd like, free and without copyright, trademark, or license. </snark>

 

Just like the Communists in China would do.

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I have no problem buying the plans if I went that route; $15 is not much to pay for something like that.

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Don't rule out a couple of 25hz tapped horns. If you are 100% music and don't listen at ear bleeding levels, these little beauties might work for you. I have two of them paired with a set of Belles in a small room and enjoy them very much. Keeps true to the quick low distorted bass of the horn loaded Belle. They are solid down to 25 hz and roll off pretty quick above 100hz but that is where the Belles start to take a nose dive. Little Mike's version is on the internet. A tricky build if you dont like angels but you built your mains so this wont be a hurdle. Because of the size, you can always add more of them to increase output. Big improvement from 1 - 2, but diminishing returns after that. @DizRotus has built a few as well. I laid my on their side and use them as risers for my Belles.

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The only advantage to that tapped horn is its small size. Probably fine in a smaller room at lower outputs.

 

If you do decide to build one don't include the padding on the bends, it serves no purpose.

 

Max output would be similar to 1 watt through the Belles but it would be struggling by that point.

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21 minutes ago, jason str said:

The only advantage to that tapped horn is its small size. Probably fine in a smaller room at lower outputs.

 

If you do decide to build one don't include the padding on the bends, it serves no purpose.

 

Max output would be similar to 1 watt through the Belles but it would be struggling by that point.

That is why you need more than one. They supplement the low end where the Belle has little or no output, so it is noticeable and enjoyable. You want explosions or to get out of your lease, these aren't the right ones. 

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I'm good with having something larger than the lil wrecker since it's going in a pretty good size room...14.5 x 35 or so. I don't play at ear bleeding levels but I would imagine I get over 100db on occasion.  Tinnitus doesn't allow for too much more volume, but, I do want some solid bass along with the Belles. I figure it will have to be something like the THT with the 10" woofer.  Years ago back in my car audio days, Kicker (Stillwater Designs) had a box design that used 4 of their C-6.5" woofers that was called "suitcase full of boom". It was very impressive in the hatch of my 93 Cobra for sure but you had the transfer function of the hatchback to help its LF extension. Maybe I'm more from the school of "there's no replacement for displacement". :D

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Haven't heard bells, but I sure like my TH-SPUD clones with La Scalas, for what it's worth. And they sure tuck in nicely behind them.

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15 minutes ago, avguytx said:

I'm good with having something larger than the lil wrecker since it's going in a pretty good size room...14.5 x 35 or so. I don't play at ear bleeding levels but I would imagine I get over 100db on occasion.  Tinnitus doesn't allow for too much more volume, but, I do want some solid bass along with the Belles. I figure it will have to be something like the THT with the 10" woofer.  Years ago back in my car audio days, Kicker (Stillwater Designs) had a box design that used 4 of their C-6.5" woofers that was called "suitcase full of boom". It was very impressive in the hatch of my 93 Cobra for sure but you had the transfer function of the hatchback to help its LF extension. Maybe I'm more from the school of "there's no replacement for displacement". :D

 

Subs in a hatchback with the rear seat down works just like a horn along with the added cabin gain can work very well.

 

A 10" driver is really not recommended in the THT though it will work,  better if used in the Table Tuba design and the recommended driver is very reasonable in fact less expensive than the little 6.5" driver in the little tapped horn mentioned earlier with far greater output.

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Wonder what a horn sub built like a 1-2' tall platform like. That a couch could sit on. Or under the couch. If the couch legs were raised a foot. 

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7 minutes ago, Heritage_Head said:

Wonder what a horn sub built like a 1-2' tall platform like. That a couch could sit on. Or under the couch. If the couch legs were raised a foot. 

 

As long as the horn mouth is between 18"- 2 1/2 feet from a boundary ( depending on the crossover point) to avoid a null it would work fine.

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