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jjptkd

Picked up a set of KP-301 II's

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Always wanted to check these out finally got a pair curious as to what is recommended for updates on these? Is the stock mid driver decent or should it be replaced? I know @CECAA850 rebuilt the crossovers on his and changed some of the values?

 

I have parts on hand to turn these into Chorus II's (all but the passives of course)  but first I'm going to clean them up and listen to them stock, these are going to be rebuilt and likely gifted to a friend. 

 

 

301 II's (279x234).jpg

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My crossovers were a mess.  One was from a 301 II and one was from an original 301.  Both had been repaired previously and had pieces loose on the PC board.  I ended up getting a replacement set from Bob.  The tweeter diaphragms in the 2 speakers were mismatched and of different materials.  I bought a set of titanium diaphragms from Bob as well.  Your squawkers should be fine and I believe they come from the factory with titanium diaphragms.

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I found this thread upon my initial search for spec's on the 301 II's.

 

" In the process of rebuilding them I installed new Crites crossovers.  I then purchased 2 other caps from Bob and dropped the squawkers by 2dB."

 

That quote is one of the reasons I'm questioning changing out the mid driver for either a stock k-61 or the A55-g. Plus the fact that new OEM replacement drivers for this model can be purchased for around $45 doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in their overall quality for home use.

 

Initial thoughts are adding the 7" port mod from the Chorus 1, damp the cabinets, replace the crossovers with Chorus II type and update the mid driver probably with the A55-g. 

 

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Also I've seen two different sets of spec's for this model, one indicates low freq. response down to 45hz and another at 50hz. Cabinet dimensions and port size are very close to Chorus 1 but the higher output of the speaker design could easily bump the -5db point above the Chorus rated output.

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33 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

I found this thread upon my initial search for spec's on the 301 II's.

 

" In the process of rebuilding them I installed new Crites crossovers.  I then purchased 2 other caps from Bob and dropped the squawkers by 2dB."

 

That quote is one of the reasons I'm questioning changing out the mid driver for either a stock k-61 or the A55-g. Plus the fact that new OEM replacement drivers for this model can be purchased for around $45 doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in their overall quality for home use.

 

Initial thoughts are adding the 7" port mod from the Chorus 1, damp the cabinets, replace the crossovers with Chorus II type and update the mid driver probably with the A55-g. 

 

You have a better memory than I do.  Yes, I did do that.   The mids seemed a little forward as I recall.   It's been a while.  I don't know if it was the design of the crossover or the Sonicaps but dropping the mids a bit helped.

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I really like my 301lls.  Mine had new tweeter diaphragms when I got them.

I changed the mid and tweeter caps because I had those on hand when in had them open.  

The mids are a bit foward when used alone. A good  sub will take care of that.

  I've seen them used in a dj set up as top cabs with 18" subs. I was using mine alone until I found a pair of mwm singles.  

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So I've stripped these down and pressure washed the cabinets and grills at the car wash, cabinets aren't really that bad at all mainly loose paint, I've been taking plenty of pictures of the whole process and will update the thread at some point.

 

I measured the internal volume of the cabinets and they are almost identical to the Chorus I&II cabinets, which makes sense as they use the same k-48 woofer.

 

After looking over the crossovers of the kp-301 II, Chorus 1 and Chorus II I think the best route is to just replace the existing crossovers with a set of new Crites Chorus II drop-ins. The Chorus 1&II woofer and tweeter crossover parts are near identical the biggest change is centered around the mid driver and since I'll be using the Chorus II mid driver until I can locate another pair of A55-g's it just makes the most sense.

 

I plan on adding 7" port tubes for slightly lower tuning as has been done by many others with the Chorus 1 and will add damping material to the cabinet. Titanium tweeter diaphragms will also be added to the crossover order.

 

Cosmetically I've stripped these cabinets down and I'm going to give them a nice heavy coat of some sort of bedliner material, duratex or deck coating I'm not sure yet need to do some more research on that. I'm not sure If I'll re-install the plastic corners or not yet? These will be used as mains in a guest bedroom / second media room.  

 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 4:46 AM, CECAA850 said:

You have a better memory than I do.  Yes, I did do that.   The mids seemed a little forward as I recall.  I don't know if it was the design of the crossover or the Sonicaps but dropping the mids a bit helped.

 

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 4:50 AM, Skelt said:

I really like my 301lls.  

The mids are a bit foward when used alone.  

 

You know I don't really find it odd that these speakers are forward sounding in the mids as they are "Pro" speakers (even though I've been told there is no difference between pro and home versions) looking at the mid driver specs of the 301 II's (105db @ 1 watt) and the crossover schematic (T7A -10db) for the mid should put the mid at 95 db sensitivity versus the Chorus with a 110db mid driver and the T5A for a -6db padding seems odd? There must be more to it than what I'm seeing...

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12 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

So I've stripped these down and pressure washed the cabinets and grills at the car wash, cabinets aren't really that bad at all mainly loose paint, I've been taking plenty of pictures of the whole process and will update the thread at some point.

 

I measured the internal volume of the cabinets and they are almost identical to the Chorus I&II cabinets, which makes sense as they use the same k-48 woofer.

 

After looking over the crossovers of the kp-301 II, Chorus 1 and Chorus II I think the best route is to just replace the existing crossovers with a set of new Crites Chorus II drop-ins. The Chorus 1&II woofer and tweeter crossover parts are near identical the biggest change is centered around the mid driver and since I'll be using the Chorus II mid driver until I can locate another pair of A55-g's it just makes the most sense.

 

I plan on adding 7" port tubes for slightly lower tuning as has been done by many others with the Chorus 1 and will add damping material to the cabinet. Titanium tweeter diaphragms will also be added to the crossover order.

 

Cosmetically I've stripped these cabinets down and I'm going to give them a nice heavy coat of some sort of bedliner material, duratex or deck coating I'm not sure yet need to do some more research on that. I'm not sure If I'll re-install the plastic corners or not yet? These will be used as mains in a guest bedroom / second media room.  

 

 

Please tell me you did not actually power wash these with water. If you are going to tinker with the design I would only do it to one at a time and see what it does. Recapping the crossovers is always #1 on the list for anything I get. The Chorus crossovers ARE NOT the same as the 301's. The 301's are rated at 200watt and Chorus at 100watt and there are differences in the crossover. I thought the K-792 and the mids were already Ti diaphragms. Am I remembering wrong?

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1 minute ago, Dave A said:

Please tell me you did not actually power wash these with water. If you are going to tinker with the design I would only do it to one at a time and see what it does. Recapping the crossovers is always #1 on the list for anything I get. The Chorus crossovers ARE NOT the same as the 301's. The 301's are rated at 200watt and Chorus at 100watt and there are differences in the crossover. I thought the K-792 and the mids were already Ti diaphragms. Am I remembering wrong?

 

Yes indeed I did, washed them down good with the scrub brush at the car wash then sprayed them down. I shook all of the water out and immediately towel dried them and let them sit in the sun for a bit, the black came back nice and shiny.

 

As far as design I'm simply converting these from "pro" speakers designed for max power handling and extreme output to their home version the Chorus II of sorts, kind of a hybrid Chorus ! bass bins with Chorus II mid horn.

 

From the factory the 301 II has a 2" titanium mid driver and the cheap plastic poly? tweeter diaphragms. My plan is to end up with A55-g mids and titanium tweeter diaphragms, same formula I've used a couple times already and I personally love the results.

 

Because of the Covid shutdown I was able to spend the last month at my Montana home and listened every day to my newly modified Chorus II's with the CF-4 mid horn / A55-g combo, Tractrix titanium tweeters and Crites rebuilt crossovers along with some cabinet damping and I tell you what I have arrived as far as I'm concerned those speakers sound incredible at any volume. Basically I'm going to try and get as close as I can to those speakers in these pro cabinets.

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On 5/7/2020 at 6:46 AM, CECAA850 said:

You have a better memory than I do.  Yes, I did do that.   The mids seemed a little forward as I recall.   It's been a while.  I don't know if it was the design of the crossover or the Sonicaps but dropping the mids a bit helped.

The 2's are forward compared to the older ones. My very favorite ones are the cloth grille type from the late 80's. Recapped and retweeted and those things are stellar.

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2 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

Yes indeed I did, washed them down good with the scrub brush at the car wash then sprayed them down. I shook all of the water out and immediately towel dried them and let them sit in the sun for a bit, the black came back nice and shiny.

 

As far as design I'm simply converting these from "pro" speakers designed for max power handling and extreme output to their home version the Chorus II of sorts, kind of a hybrid Chorus ! bass bins with Chorus II mid horn.

 

From the factory the 301 II has a 2" titanium mid driver and the cheap plastic poly? tweeter diaphragms. My plan is to end up with A55-g mids and titanium tweeter diaphragms, same formula I've used a couple times already and I personally love the results.

 

Because of the Covid shutdown I was able to spend the last month at my Montana home and listened every day to my newly modified Chorus II's with the CF-4 mid horn / A55-g combo, Tractrix titanium tweeters and Crites rebuilt crossovers along with some cabinet damping and I tell you what I have arrived as far as I'm concerned those speakers sound incredible at any volume. Basically I'm going to try and get as close as I can to those speakers in these pro cabinets.

Well you can hardly go wrong with either of them. Chorus/301's are my favorites above all the rest for that time period. Only until the CW4 did Klipsch make a better comparable cabinet speaker.

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@jjptkd , congratulations on your finding a pair of KP-301 IIs!

 

I drove ten hours round trip pre-Covid (January) for a pair of just plain old 301s.

 

The price was right, but one diaphragm and two fuses were blown. Fortunately for me I keep my feathers numbered for just such an emergency... had fuses and a spare pair of Crites Ti diaphragms for the tweeters. The next day after work they were singing.

 

I was not in the least bit disappointed with the sound, loud or soft.

 

My son remarked just the other day that he has never seen me leave one pair of speakers in rotation for as long as the 301s.

 

I have a pair of Chorus IIs sitting idle in the basement and the modded Cornwalls pictured below in the master bedroom.

 

But these KP-301s, man! There is something about that K-48 and the steeper crossovers and filters in that pro cabinet that is special. In all my decades of listening to Rush I had never heard the definition in the opening drums on Lakeside Park like this before.

 

I would be reluctant to change that crossover out on your 301 IIs, BUT if you do and have no use for it afterward, I’m calling dibs! 

 

Any way you slice it, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress,

 

 

 

 

 

 

0BFC56BD-F25A-4FD7-9D38-AA768B83A863.jpeg

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5 hours ago, geoff. said:

 

 

 

@jjptkd , congratulations on your finding a pair of KP-301 IIs!

 

I drove ten hours round trip pre-Covid (January) for a pair of just plain old 301s.

 

I was not in the least bit disappointed with the sound, loud or soft.

 

My son remarked just the other day that he has never seen me leave one pair of speakers in rotation for as long as the 301s.

 

I have a pair of Chorus IIs sitting idle in the basement and the modded Cornwalls pictured below in the master bedroom.

 

But these KP-301s, man! There is something about that K-48 and the steeper crossovers and filters in that pro cabinet that is special. In all my decades of listening to Rush I had never heard the definition in the opening drums on Lakeside Park like this before.

 

I would be reluctant to change that crossover out on your 301 IIs, BUT if you do and have no use for it afterward, I’m calling dibs! 

 

Any way you slice it, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress,

 

I'm just curious have you owned / heard the Chorus 1's? I've said for a long time and at least a few others seem to agree they are more accurate sounding,  cleaner / tighter bass than the Chorus II but they don't go as low. Kick drums and bass guitar sound much more real IMO on the Chorus 1, I wonder how much of the difference you're hearing is just port style versus the I & II, front port vs passive?

 

I would take a pair of Chorus 1's with an RSW-15 any day of the week over a pair of Chorus II's without a sub but if a sub is not an option I like the slightly deeper and more enveloping bass of the II's.

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5 hours ago, geoff. said:

Any way you slice it, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress,

 

This week I'm going to re-coat the cabinets thinking maybe Flex-seal? It's the only thing I could find at home depot I can pick up right away looks like a good product still not sure yet. It may take me some time to gather some of the parts I need to complete the project the way I want to and the proposed changes do not require modifying the cabinet in any way so easily changed back.

 

I plan on putting them back together in stock configuration and giving them a run as is for awhile maybe if they sound good it will save me a bit of cash? I don't know though I'm really sold on the A55-g mid driver but they are no longer available we'll see how things go thanks.

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Pictures don't really do them justice they were a light grey from thick dust now the black that stayed is bright like new but they need lots of touch up going to give them a few coats of some kind thick coating material this week.

20200510_095849 (640x598).jpg

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In the for what it is worth category. I have owned all the 301 and Chorus variants. My favorite is the older 301 with the cloth grilles and no Ti anything. Next is the Chorus I because they respond so well to recaps and tweeter upgrades plus being front ported they can go anywhere and sound the same. Then the Chorus II and finally the 301 II. I am not a fan of the K-792 at all.

 

  Of them all the one I still regret letting go of was a cloth grille early 301. I let them go to a pair of Musicians from Nashville after they made a ridiculous offer on them I could not refuse. They wanted to hear them wide open and my amp was 200 watts per channel and the speaker said it could handle that. What the heck I thought all I can do is have something to fix. I put hearing protection on and pegged the amp and they stood there with silly grins on their faces as they reached for their wallets. Very serious speaker for it's size.

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20 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

 

looking at the mid driver specs of the 301 II's (105db @ 1 watt) and the crossover schematic (T7A -10db) for the mid should put the mid at 95 db sensitivity versus the Chorus with a 110db mid driver and the T5A for a -6db padding seems odd? There must be more to it than what I'm seeing...

The 105 dB @ 1watt is that the driver alone or with the horn?

I suspect it's the driver by itself. 

 

The 110dB for the Chorus was likely measured on the horn.

 

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You did good! I bought a set of the version 1 301's that Dave mentions above with the cloth grills several years ago that my dad still has in his shop. These older pro speakers are unbeatable. I made sure that before I gave them to him that they were in the will to come back to me lol.

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