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brad0112

LaScala - To Refub or "Upgrade"

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Been doing a lot of reading on various forums and wanted to get an opinion from the fellow members here. 

 

I've got a pair 1978 LaScalas with the original innards.  We use them as a home theater watching TV, movies, and sports (when not in a pandemic).  Occasionally I will fire up the turntable and spend a few hours spinning some vinyl.  I am considering making these modifications:

 

A. New Type AA crossover from Crites with tweeter diaphragm replacement

 

or 

 

B.  New  A/4500 crossover with the CT120 tweeters.  

 

Cost is about the same, so that's not much of a factor.  I am leaning towards option B,  but the purist in me says this changing too much from the intended original design.  Like is a Chevy still a Chevy if you replace the engine?

Would appreciate any thoughts on the topic...

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18 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

Been doing a lot of reading on various forums and wanted to get an opinion from the fellow members here. 

 

I've got a pair 1978 LaScalas with the original innards.  We use them as a home theater watching TV, movies, and sports (when not in a pandemic).  Occasionally I will fire up the turntable and spend a few hours spinning some vinyl.  I am considering making these modifications:

 

A. New Type AA crossover from Crites with tweeter diaphragm replacement

 

or 

 

B.  New  A/4500 crossover with the CT120 tweeters.  

 

Cost is about the same, so that's not much of a factor.  I am leaning towards option B,  but the purist in me says this changing too much from the intended original design.  Like is a Chevy still a Chevy if you replace the engine?

Would appreciate any thoughts on the topic...

B

if you tune up a Chevy, its still a chevy!

main reason is the serious upgrade from k77 to CT120

I have A 4500 in a pair of Belles and like it very much

 

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Heh, you're not going to like this but, my vote is to 'upgrade' and unfortunately, that doesn't mean keep your Chevy a Chevy!!!

 

1.  Get your wife accustomed to wearing her Covid mask OVER her eyes so she can't see anything

2.  Get the K402 and an active crossover

3.  Place 402 atop the LaScala, do the wiring to bring it alive

4.  Keep the blind on the wife for....oh.....  3-4 weeks

5.  After she capitulates and admits how freaking more incredible it now sounds.....take her blind off.

6.  After she kicks you out of the house, you can actually wear the 402 over your head, much like a dunce cap or rain cover OR

7.  Make sure we're all invited to your funeral because it'll be the best sounding funeral in town.

 

Yeah, that should just about cover all contingencies.

 

Oh,  there is a sliver of chance she'll like & accept them in the home.  There are a couple better halves that do (which of course, is why they're better!!)  Many however, including my own, view it with a bit of a jaundiced eye so measure your moves and take your chances!!

 

The 402 atop the LaScala as a 2-way will make your stock LaScala sound more like a toy speaker (with all due respect to LaScalas out there....of which I own a pair)

 

 

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36 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

 I am considering making  modifications:

Your stock AA need new capacitors , that's it -----not new crossovers , and they will sound just as good as new capacitors ---1/2 an hour later , they're done ,    what's wrong with the tweeters -are the diaphragms shot , if  they are not ,   no need to touch them , just buy new tweeters CT 120------and listen to see which ones you like better -------

 

by the way , if you ever decide to replace your tweeters and crossovers -PM me , I'll take them -

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Well, been there and done all of that. 

Here's what I did and would do again:

- Replace the capacitors with a very good quality film and foil cap, not metalized.  Metalized are OK, you want better. 

- Replace the squawker driver with early '80s solder terminal K-55-Vs.  They respond well up to 6k.  Alternatively, you could use Allen A-55-Gs. 

- Wrap the squawker horn with Dynamat, or similar viscoelastic sheet.  Kills an edge you don't know you have till it's gone.  Play Thelma Houston, loud, and touch the horn throat to see why.

- Flush mount the tweeters using K-77-Fs(?), Fastrac tweeter horns, Dave's improved MAHL, or Similar and B&C DE120 drivers and defeat/remove the KLiP diodes.  This will change the character of the speaker, but it will be a smooooooth sound you should like. 

- Stuff the upper cabinet tightly with fiberfil.  Rap the cabinet top with your knuckles to see why. 

 

K-402/K69(?) and electronic crossover would be the BOMB!  But what a sure, ugly beasty  she'd be! 

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I put Crites CT-120's in my LSll's after I blew a K-77M. They sound great and can handle more abuse.

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I second the “pop in fresh capacitors and a pair of CT-120s and you’re done” concept.  That way, it won’t cost you much to get clearly improved sound.  Going super-modified, especially with the K-402 horns and K-69-A or K-691 drivers, second power amp and active electronic crossover, will give you great sound, but it will start to approach the price of a pair of Jubilees, and it still won’t sound as good as Jubilees.

 

I went that route and was surprised how much it cost.  If you go for really high performance, it makes no sense to cheap out on any component in the signal chain, but it adds up fast.  There are expensive ways to get great sound, and there are slightly less expensive ways, but there are no really cheap ways.

 

Just my two cents.  Oops, we don’t have cents up here anymore.  Just my nickel.

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39 minutes ago, Islander said:

I second the “pop in fresh capacitors and a pair of CT-120s and you’re done” concept.  That way, it won’t cost you much to get clearly improved sound.  Going super-modified, especially with the K-402 horns and K-69-A or K-691 drivers, second power amp and active electronic crossover, will give you great sound, but it will start to approach the price of a pair of Jubilees, and it still won’t sound as good as Jubilees.

 

I went that route and was surprised how much it cost.  If you go for really high performance, it makes no sense to cheap out on any component in the signal chain, but it adds up fast.  There are expensive ways to get great sound, and there are slightly less expensive ways, but there are no really cheap ways.

 

Just my two cents.  Oops, we don’t have cents up here anymore.  Just my nickel.

OK, so if I go that route, do I stay with the AA crossover or get the a/4500???

 

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8 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

OK, so if I go that route, do I stay with the AA crossover or get the a/4500???

 

I did not realize you had AAs, a recap is all you need. I would still do the CT120 or one of DaveA's tweeters using the 120 driver.

Which mid driver do you have?

 

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11 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

OK, so if I go that route, do I stay with the AA crossover or get the a/4500???

 

I like the AA ----Never had a chance to try the 4500-

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On 8/4/2020 at 6:45 PM, brad0112 said:

OK, so if I go that route, do I stay with the AA crossover or get the a/4500???

 

 

I’m pretty happy with the AAs in my La Scalas.  I haven’t heard the A/4500s, so I can’t help you there.

 

It comes down to how much money you feel like spending.  Re-capping the AA crossovers will keep your speakers stock, sounding like they’re brand new, or close to it, and the AA crossovers are liked and respected by many La Scala owners.  They’re probably the most popular LS crossovers.  Some people really like the 4500s, but it’s a much smaller number.

 

As for the CT120 tweeters, that should be a worthwhile upgrade, and you can keep the K-77s if you want to put your speakers back to stock at some point.  I’ve got the earlier CT125 tweeters, and I’d never go back to K-77s.

 

Hope this is helpful.

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5 hours ago, Islander said:

 

I’m pretty happy with the AAs in my La Scalas.  I haven’t heard the A/4500s, so I can’t help you there.

 

It comes down to how much money you feel like spending.  Re-capping the AA crossovers will keep your speakers stock, sounding like they’re brand new, or close to it, and the AA crossovers are liked and respected by many La Scala owners.  They’re probably the most popular LS crossovers.  Some people really like the 4500s, but it’s a much smaller number.

 

As for the CT120 tweeters, that should be a worthwhile upgrade, and you can keep the K-77s if you want to put your speakers back to stock at some point.  I’ve got the earlier CT125 tweeters, and I’d never go back to K-77s.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks!  It is helpful.  I suppose I can try the new crossovers first and see the difference, and if I wanted to get the C120's later if I want.  

 

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5 hours ago, brad0112 said:

Thanks!  It is helpful.  I suppose I can try the new crossovers first and see the difference, and if I wanted to get the C120's later if I want.  

 

keep your AA , to hear the difference

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14 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

ok -  do you want to keep your AA or will be parting with these --

Not sure, I have to decide if I want to send in for a rebuild or buy new.    New our decrease my "down time, but it is $200 more.  Mine are from 1978, so not sure if the rest of the parts also need replacement from age.

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8 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

not sure if the rest of the parts also need replacement from age.

The caps are the only thing you need to worry about.

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39 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

I’ve got the earlier CT125 tweeters, and I’d never go back to K-77s.

 

I agree.  I’ve had all three, including CT120.  The CT120 is marginally better than CT125; both are an improvement over K77, which is an old design, but a good tweeter.

 

As others have said.  Keep the old components so the “upgrades” can be easily reversed.

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5 hours ago, brad0112 said:

not sure if the rest of the parts also need replacement from age.

I doubt it , but , a picture would tell us very quickly ------as to the overall condition of the part -----

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On 8/6/2020 at 5:23 PM, RandyH000 said:

I doubt it , but , a picture would tell us very quickly ------as to the overall condition of the part -----

Here you go.  

Thanks for taking a look!

20200810_160345.thumb.jpg.d8c75526e68bbfac56fa9cc984c78528.jpg20200810_160330.thumb.jpg.b226e092d2d3430b5fb10db45f825e85.jpg

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32 minutes ago, brad0112 said:

Here you go.  

Thanks for taking a look!

 

They look  excellent  , the  2nd crossover  shows a bit of masking  tape next to the AA logo--otherwise perfect

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