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Covid Vax, who's got it? and Worried About Side Effects?


kevinmi

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Just now, RickD said:

What about the medical staff and the people they leave behind? Is it fair to them?  The hospital beds they occupy could be put to better use. I've read that some hospitals are considering turning away the unvaccinated. They should. 

That is an interesting question. Do you limit that thought to covid only or also fairly apply it to obesity, diabetes induced by eating habits along with heart attacks and other life style induced complications. They all take beds and resources and all of them were a choice made.

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4 minutes ago, RickD said:

What about the medical staff and the people they leave behind? Is it fair to them?  The hospital beds they occupy could be put to better use. I've read that some hospitals are considering turning away the unvaccinated. They should. 

 

 

Turn away fat people, drinkers, smokers, fast drivers, criminals, etc., too.  We need those beds for the truly innocents. 

 

We've had this debate many times.  It never happens.  We excuse people for poor life choices.  It's part of the social safety net.

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

That is an interesting question. Do you limit that thought to covid only or also fairly apply it to obesity, diabetes induced by eating habits along with heart attacks and other life style induced complications. They all take beds and resources and all of them were a choice made.

I've never been in the insurance industry; but I've heard that Body Mass Index is a factor in life insurance ... not sure if it's in higher premiums or as a disqualification.

 

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Viruses have been intentionally released into the world by humans before, for the purpose of population control. Here you can see an image taken in Australia in 1950 during such an exercise to control rabbit populations. For this reason, I do support those who are anti-vaxers. If you don't want your covid-19 vaccine that is just fine with me, cause I know that the Covid-19 virus still works great. I am glad I got my vax though.

_20210820_nf_MyxomatosisTrial.jpg

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3 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

"Covid is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated."

 

Isn't that a good thing?  It used to be a pandemic for everyone.

 

Now, you can get your shot and leave fools to their own demise.  It's survival of the fittest.  Natural population control. (sarcasm)

 

The fact that the vaccine has already been so effective is every reason NOT to force people to take it.

 

Yes I agree, if they would triage based on whether you are vaccinated or not. So if you are not vaccinated and you need hospitalization for Covid  related illness you will only get a bed, or admitted to ICU, if there are enough beds in reserve for  non-covid emergency.

 

Unfortunately, we don't have the stomach to do that in the US, so when there is a surge in a State or county because of non-vaccinated covid patients there  are no beds for serious non-covid related illness or injuries. So the "fools", as you call them, continue to significantly impact everyone. 

 

As they have been saying for well over a year, an effective vaccine is meaningless. It's vaccinations that matter ("shots in arms") and herd immunity. That's the one and only way to stop a contagion.  Until you hit the number it doesn't matter how effective the vaccination is

 

No one, to date, has been forced to get vaccinated for Covid in the US. That is going to change slightly probably in the near future when Pfizer gets FDA approval this week - there may be a shift in military policy on the vaccine and if that happens some will say it will look like they are being forced to be vaccinated (me included because I know what the "options" were that we're given to me).

 

 

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3 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Unfortunately, we don't have the stomach to do that in the US, so when there is a surge in a State or county because of non-vaccinated covid patients there  are no beds for serious non-covid related illness or injuries. So the "fools", as you call them, continue to significantly impact everyone. 

Story of my life from the bedside. I won't get political or comment otherwise.   Get your ******* vaccine, Democrat or republican, if you habe a brain and can make decisions, doesn't matter. Thank you from those of us caring for all of the dying for more than a year straight. I have put to rest more than I ever wants to in my career, don't be stupid.  

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35 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

I've never been in the insurance industry; but I've heard that Body Mass Index is a factor in life insurance ... not sure if it's in higher premiums or as a disqualification.

 

It can be either. There are 3  classifications based on BMI, "overweight", "obese" and "severe obesity" and they have numbers, like everything else, on what the risk of those things are on life expectancy. Anything that lowers life expectancy causes increase in premium. If it is serious enough, then it is a disqualification, or lowers the amount they will write.

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23 minutes ago, 314carpenter said:

Viruses have been intentionally released into the world by humans before, for the purpose of population control. Here you can see an image taken in Australia in 1950 during such an exercise to control rabbit populations. I am on board with you guys who are anti-vaxers. If you don't want your vaccine that is fine with me, cause I know that the virus still works. I still got my vax though.

_20210820_nf_MyxomatosisTrial.jpg

They also thought the Cane Toad would be a good idea. 

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1 minute ago, dwilawyer said:

It can be either. There are 3  classifications based on BMI, "overweight", "obese" and "severe obesity" and they have numbers, like everything else, on what the risk of those things are on life expectancy. Anything that lowers life expectancy causes increase in premium. If it is serious enough, then it is a disqualification, or lowers the amount they will write.

Not true AT ALL.  Federal payout is STRONG and has been since COVID was spotted in the US. My hospital admits those with almost no chance of survival based on it.  

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13 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Unfortunately, we don't have the stomach to do that in the US, so when there is a surge in a State or county because of non-vaccinated covid patients there  are no beds for serious non-covid related illness or injuries. So the "fools", as you call them, continue to significantly impact everyone. 

Right.  There's no doubt at all about that.

 

Just imagine all those folks who foolishly live along fault lines in California.  Once the big quake happens again (and it will), we should all remind those folks what a drag they are on the system.

 

What makes one fool's vice any better than the other's?  What compels us to judge people in this way, and is it really fair?  One idiot refuses to get a shot, while the other downs his 10th shot of tequila and lights another cig.

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3 hours ago, richieb said:

I’ve read insurance companies will not be as “generous” with COVID Delta patients hospitalization costs if they elected against the vaccine. 

I would guess that most, certainly not all, non-vaccinated are uninsured. For those that are insured, an insurance company cannot treat you differently because you are vaccinated, not vaccinated, you smoke, you are 100 lbs overweight, don't take your cholesterol medicine, etc.

 

At some point they might be able to charge much higher premiums if unvaccinated. Right now that cost is spread across to everyone.

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3 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

At some point they might be able to charge much higher premiums if unvaccinated. Right now that cost is spread across to everyone.

This was the topic discussed in an assignment I worked on back in the late 1980's college days.  

 

Once an insurer can effectively identify a risk, should they be able to discriminate based on it?  We have accepted discrimination based on age and some other factors.  They are not allowed to require a person's genetic profile to predict future health risks.  We're good with that.  What's so "special" about refusing a vaccine?

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7 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Not true AT ALL.  Federal payout is STRONG and has been since COVID was spotted in the US. My hospital admits those with almost no chance of survival based on it.  

Go back and read what I was responding to. Hint: Life ins. Premiums based on obesity, not hospital admissions.

 

Your hospital admits patients of all types, including covid, because of EMTALA.

 

Are you guys full up? Close? Is it a County Hospital? Private? Kaiser System? Have you lost nurses? Short on nurses? They just had to bring in 600 nurses to Texas, I'm trying to figure out where they are getting them.

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Just imagine all those folks who foolishly live along fault lines in California. 

Really?  You are blaming CA?  I don't know where you reside, but if you aren't from here, come visit.  It would enlighten you.  Check you other states.  Look at population to vaccination rate.   

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10 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

They also thought the Cane Toad would be a good idea. 

My post was only intended as a disparagement. I figured nobody would get it. You would have to read between the lines. Of course I don't really feel that any of this is a good idea.

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1 minute ago, dwilawyer said:

They just had to bring in 600 nurses to Texas

I've heard hospitals in Houston are full and that people who show up in small, emergency clinics can't get rooms quick enough and are dying.  I guess that sort of works according to the plan you seem to prefer since the vast majority who are now getting sick and dying are, indeed, the unvaccinated.  

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1 minute ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Really?  You are blaming CA?  I don't know where you reside, but if you aren't from here, come visit.  It would enlighten you.  Check you other states.  Look at population to vaccination rate.   

I have nothing against California.  I'm just making logical arguments. 

 

I could have used as an example people living on the coast of Louisiana.  They're gonna flood!  Geez!  Who'd live there?  Those fools need to suffer the consequence of their choices and not become drags on the rest of us.

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There are 3  classifications based on BMI, "overweight", "obese" and "severe obesity" and they have numbers, like everything else, on what the risk of those things are on life expectancy. Anything that lowers life expectancy causes increase in premium. If it is serious enough, then it is a disqualification, or lowers the amount they will write.

 

I read it. You have no idea what you are taking about. Current federal guidelines pay out and cover everything under the sun related to COVID. Seldom is something not covered under Biden.  Have you gotten your checks that you didn't need yet? I have 

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7 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Really?  You are blaming CA?  I don't know where you reside, but if you aren't from here, come visit.  It would enlighten you.  Check you other states.  Look at population to vaccination rate.   

States? I was not aware that this was a U.S.A problem, and not a world problem. Shouldn't we check population to vaccination rates by nation?

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I have nothing against California.  I'm just making logical arguments. 

 

I could have used as an example people living on the coast of Louisiana.  They're gonna flood!  Geez!  Who'd live there?  Those fools need to suffer the consequence of their choices and not become drags on the rest of us.

You need to get a clue.  So people on a fault line are idiots when 10000 die?  People in Texas are stupid when 10000 die from flooding?   Come on son. Thats an un-American statement.  

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