VDS Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Recently made some cable changes in my system that took some “edginess” out of my sound. Installed Cardas Parsec interconnects from my Dac to preamp and Deulund 12ga wire for my HF driver in my 2 way k402 MEH. Sound is smoother, but no less transparent. I have been using First Watt F3 prior, but now put my Pass Xa25 back in. The Ax25 was previously a little “edgy”, but with the new cables the sound is clear, and smoother. A great upgrade for me! YMMV 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Very interesting the speaker cable change helps the amp. Fully well agree tuning the wires greatly helps the sound. Currently favoring the Duelund 16 ga speaker cable. Apparently the blog hype is real for this wire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeefheart Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 11/15/2021 at 6:58 PM, VDS said: Recently made some cable changes in my system that took some “edginess” out of my sound. Installed Cardas Parsec interconnects from my Dac to preamp and Deulund 12ga wire for my HF driver in my 2 way k402 MEH. Sound is smoother, but no less transparent. I have been using First Watt F3 prior, but now put my Pass Xa25 back in. The Ax25 was previously a little “edgy”, but with the new cables the sound is clear, and smoother. A great upgrade for me! YMMV Which speaker cable were you using before the Duelund? And which Dueland did you choose, flat silver, tinned multi-strand copper, or solid copper? What length was the original speaker cables compared to the new Duelund cables? I firmly believe cables make very little difference, specifically interconnects. Speaker cables more so and I am very interested in easily figuring out the differences, usually geometrical differences sometimes insulation. Of course true for all types is length and diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Setting aside all the valid arguments for double blind, greener grass, confirmation bias, and dime's worth of difference, the best approach may be to test and see for yourself. I learned a lot when I took some time to cycle back through all the speaker wires I collected over the years, along with some test runs of various configs. I find it hard to believe some would think drastically different wires would sound similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted November 17, 2021 Author Share Posted November 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said: Which speaker cable were you using before the Duelund? And which Dueland did you choose, flat silver, tinned multi-strad copper, or solid copper? What length was the original speaker cables compared to the new Duelund cables? I firmly believe cables make very little difference, specifically interconnects, speaker cables more so and I am very interested in easily figuring out the differences, usually geometrical differences sometimes insulation. Of course true for all types is length and diameter. Was using Blue jeans cable 12ga copper. Went to Deulund 12ga tin plated stranded copper. had BJC interconnects before Cardas Parsec. Wouldn’t even try to persuade anybody, but it helped me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeefheart Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, VDS said: Wouldn’t even try to persuade anybody, but it helped me. That's all that matters is it did help. I see passive preamps have become popular for "purity" purposes and here is where interconnects can definitely have a big difference due to the higher impedance's and the cable capacitance. Funny thing, this is only a problem in the hifi world because honestly just about all mid-fi and even low-fi gear have low output impedance from opamps. Speaker cables like I said is where you will more so get sound differences, they become very minor if gauge is appropriate for normal to short cable lengths, this effects low end. High frequencies are little more complex, cable geometry effects inductance which can create losses (reduction in treble). Or skin effect which is for the most part moot because surface depth for 20kHz is deep enough with almost any cable you choose to not suffer losses. There can be high frequency information or oscillations on high bandwidth amps and gear where maybe you actually want some losses in the upper treble range because the ear is sensitive to odd harmonics and or oscillations up there and the losses soften the sound making it less harsh and more enjoyable. It is very interesting stuff. I hardly believe 95% of the garbage these cable companies say and how they grossly make ridiculous claims, yes there are differences between cables but they are very minor and usually on well setup systems not needed if engineered correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Well engineered systems are exactly where good cables are needed. Now if you are using an AVR with a cheap seede player, probably not. But as you move up the food chain with better gear your system becomes more resolving of differences. Shakey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I'm a skeptic when it comes to "cable sound", but I was just proved wrong. One of my brand new (not exotic, but not dime-store cheap, either) interconnects had an intermittent ground. That channel hummed. Replaced the cable, and instantly got better sound quality. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Edgar said: I'm a skeptic when it comes to "cable sound", but I was just proved wrong. One of my brand new (not exotic, but not dime-store cheap, either) interconnects had an intermittent ground. That channel hummed. Replaced the cable, and instantly got better sound quality. Wouldn't you think that any cable, regardless of cost or so called quality would exhibit "issues" if there was a defect in the cable? I guess I don't understand what this has to do with the "cable sound" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I've said this time and again. If you are not an "active" listener with a resolving system, better cables won't make a difference to you. If you are that guy (not you in particular, but YOU anyone) it's ok. No shame in it and it saves you a lot of money. And I won't tell anyone that they are deaf or stupid. If you can't hear it, you can't hear it. But what I have a problem with is when someone tells me I can't hear it and I'm ignorant for not believing that zip cord is all I'll ever need. Shakey 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: Wouldn't you think that any cable, regardless of cost or so called quality would exhibit "issues" if there was a defect in the cable? Of course. My point is that, if you hear profound differences in sound between cables, then there is something else at play. In my case it was a defect in the cable. In other cases, as mentioned above, it might be an interaction between the cable and the devices to which it is connected. But it's not just the cable (unless there's something wrong with it). A cable that sounds good in one system might not sound good in another. For that matter, cables that sound different in one system might not sound different in another. We have to think of these as elements of a system, not as a bunch of independent components strung together. Edited November 17, 2021 by Edgar spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Amir over at ASR measured a few RCA cables recently. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-rca-cables-mogami-amazon-monoprice.27871/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Shiva said: Amir over at ASR measured a few RCA cables recently. While I am very encouraged by the measured results, I can conceive of situations in which cable characteristics might interact with source or destination components. Maybe ... maybe ... I'm still skeptical. Much more likely with speaker wires, where reactive impedance can lead to instability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Does Amir's test tells everything about cables that can make a difference in sound? I am not sure about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, KT88 said: Does Amir's test tells everything about cables that can make a difference in sound? I am not sure about that. I don't think so. Looks like only frequency response, distortion, and noise immunity into a (probably) resistive load. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 What he mainly seems interested in is testing for transparency to the signal. He also tests speakers, as he has a device to measure them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Edgar said: I'm a skeptic when it comes to "cable sound", but I was just proved wrong. One of my brand new (not exotic, but not dime-store cheap, either) interconnects had an intermittent ground. That channel hummed. Replaced the cable, and instantly got better sound quality. Ok this was your attempt at humor, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Are we talking about unbalanced connections....again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, babadono said: Ok this was your attempt at humor, correct? An attempt to make a serious point with a bit of humor. I can't claim that it succeeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Edgar said: An attempt to make a serious point with a bit of humor. I can't claim that it succeeded. Worked on me. Hence my laughy face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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