henry4841 Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Another opinion concerning Tube Amps, not class D Chip amps. fish out of water.............. MY Qualifier for amps is NEUTRALITY given by SINAD testing. Valves have terrible numbers in comparison, which means they are a preferred distortion over neutrality. Nothing wrong with that preference if it floats your ears. I had all those in my teens, 20's and 30's. I like the new Millenium better. I see your point and this debate has been happening since amplifiers were created, straight wire with gain or tubes with some 2nd harmonic and a touch of 3rd. I can and do listen to both having many amplifiers but I do enjoy the tube sound with my choice of music more. This is not to say I do not listen to a class D or a class A/B SS amplifier for weeks, months without changing back to tubes. I am sure you know Nelson Pass likes some 2nd harmonics in a lot of his amplifiers. He often says it is not kidney dialysis but entertainment. Nice these days to have a choice. I personally believe every serious audiophile should have both, a good SS amplifier and a SET tube amplifier for a different sound to enjoy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 22 hours ago, henry4841 said: Nice these days to have a choice. I personally believe every serious audiophile should have both, a good SS amplifier and a SET tube amplifier for a different sound to enjoy. I totally agree with these sentiments. I just got the "valve fussiness" out of my system long ago. Valves are now like swimming pools, yachts, and Ferraris to me. I don't want to own them. I just want a set of Keys from those who do, so I can enjoy them when they are in Europe on vacation! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I can understand Claude. I was a SS guy until meeting Maynard on this forum and I now enjoy a good SET tube amplifier. Talking about 2nd harmonic distortion Nelson has taken the understanding of it to another level. His research has shown the he likes a negative phase 2nd harmonic over a positive one. Really technical stuff. It boils down to the 2nd harmonic can be in phase with the primary signal of out of phase, positive phase of negative phase. We are talking small amounts, something in the neighborhood or .5% or less. The positive phase 2nd harmonic is more in your face where the negative phase is more laid back but with other desirable traits. Nelson has made a career of late with First Watt SS amplifiers with a tube like sound. The best of both worlds tube sound in SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 18 hours ago, henry4841 said: I can understand Claude. I was a SS guy I have solid state amps as well, still have a PA5 actually but where the disconnect for me is believing the lower the distortion of an amplifier the "better" it sounds I call BS on that. For one thing I don't think our ears can distinguish between .1 and .01 let alone .001 and .0001 distortion numbers at some point it becomes irrelevant. Just like speakers with a frequency response up to 35khz I'm not playing music for my dog if it's way beyond my hearing threshold I find it hard to believe that it really "adds" anything to the music or becomes "more" neutral. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 9 hours ago, jjptkd said: I have solid state amps as well, still have a PA5 actually but where the disconnect for me is believing the lower the distortion of an amplifier the "better" it sounds I call BS on that. For one thing I don't think our ears can distinguish between .1 and .01 let alone .001 and .0001 distortion numbers at some point it becomes irrelevant. Just like speakers with a frequency response up to 35khz I'm not playing music for my dog if it's way beyond my hearing threshold I find it hard to believe that it really "adds" anything to the music or becomes "more" neutral. I can understand also. I was a Tube guy once. I just got more experience later in a different direction. Kept the best and kept going. Personal choice is still Personal Choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 12/23/2023 at 6:28 PM, jjptkd said: That's taking it a bit far these amps are decent- and impressive for what they are but I found them lifeless compared to my Carver tube amps, just no where near as enjoyable. Just because they spec better than most amps doesn't mean it sounds better sorry. You skipped the keyword "value" when stating YOUR preference for permanent Tone Controls over neutrality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 12/23/2023 at 6:28 PM, jjptkd said: That's taking it a bit far these amps are decent- and impressive for what they are but I found them lifeless compared to my Carver tube amps, just no where near as enjoyable. Just because they spec better than most amps doesn't mean it sounds better sorry. The Carver Tube amps sound "better" because they use their inherent Microphonics as part of the feedback circuit. In other words, they "listen to the room" they are in. I use a microphone for the same feed back in solid state. It's an apples and elephants comparison at best. Not Class D vs Glass. It's not that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just in case someone with a PA5 needs this info, (1) Topping PA5 fix - D01 Module Replacement for everyone | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 56 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: Just in case someone with a PA5 needs this info, (1) Topping PA5 fix - D01 Module Replacement for everyone | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum I don't need a fix. I have zero problems with mine driving horns at either 4 or 8 ohms, passive. I have 3 of the originals and one Mk II version. I'm sure guys that had problems were trying to drive 84 db space heater speakers with too many watts. No "solution" needed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacek Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 The problem is not in "power" part but in feedback circut, users where raising heating issues on that part even on standbay. Saying that I just ordered PA5 II to hear what the fuzz is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 hours ago, Bacek said: The problem is not in "power" part but in feedback circut, users where raising heating issues on that part even on standbay. Saying that I just ordered PA5 II to hear what the fuzz is all about. I own 3 of the original an 1 of the V II for over 2 years. Never a single issue with horns. I NEVER turn them off, only the Pre amp an source get turned off. Never Blame the Product on what might Be id10t users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 11 hours ago, Bacek said: Saying that I just ordered PA5 II to hear what the fuzz is all about. The PA5 II amp looks like a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacek Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: I own 3 of the original an 1 of the V II for over 2 years. Never a single issue with horns. I NEVER turn them off, only the Pre amp an source get turned off. Never Blame the Product on what might Be id10t users. I was never repairing any of my cars on warranty. Conclusion is: cars never brake on warranty, only users brake them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 1 hour ago, Bacek said: I was never repairing any of my cars on warranty. Conclusion is: cars never brake on warranty, only users brake them? Since most speakers are WORSE "space heaters" than Klipsch speakers are latest from Part Express clock in at 78 dB/watt 4 ohm impedance, vs. 90-104 for most Klipsch proucts, the typical user I spoke of simple uses more power, like 100 times more, which is why the early failures exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacek Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 So if user uses this amp close to it,s maximum specs and it brakes it's stupid user fault? This is design fault. They wanted to hide fppb circut topology under wrongly designed for temperatur dispation box period. Nowhere in the manual there is notice that you should use it only with high efficiency speakers and with maximum 5w power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Stop it. Serves no purpose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: I gave you REAL world user feedBack, from over 2 years of "never shut off" use. There were flaws with the first version causing premature failures experienced by many users including myself running a pair of Klipsch speakers in a small apartment at very reasonable levels. You may have gotten lucky with the ones you purchased but many others were not. It seems as though the issue has been resolved in the newer version anyway so anyone looking to buy one new at this point shouldn't be concerned. I really don't see the point in getting angry over this or trying cover up or shift blame on a design issue from a manufacturer that has already been acknowledged and addressed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, jjptkd said: I really don't see the point in getting angry over this or trying cover up or shift blame on a design issue from a manufacturer that has already been acknowledged and addressed. I was not "covering up" or angry about anything. I'm generally just impatient with posts that totally miss the Clarity of my posts. Or contribute zero. Just stating my real world experience, nothing more, nothing less. Never read more "into" a post past what is EXACTLY written. After 10,000 of them I think I figured out how to do that Accurately myself. Everything else is misconstrued on the part of the reply typists, including YOU apparently. Also, I will not stand for someone telling me to "stop it," especially from people who never contribute anything POSITIVE or useful here. If I ever call out anyone's "bullshit" here, the term was coined by Paul Klipsch himself & should be immune from retorts of outrage or censorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 Not censorship merely a call for decorum and civility. However I see it's a waste. Now for Claude's last word....... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Hey now be careful guys... I've seen @ClaudeJ1 as he's spoken with experience and with proof to back it up. I think he might be holdin' back right now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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