*Found* Carver VTA-20 Tube Amp to Replace my Carver 275

[jjptkd]

 Excited to have found a replacement amp for my 275 so quickly the VTA-20's don't come up for sale too often. I've had a couple of these already over the years and really enjoyed the sound and performance they offer but honestly back when I had them I was still very much in "party mode" with my Chorus II's and they just couldn't hang when pushed. Now I'm a bit older and my situation and speakers have changed-- curious to see if these sound as good as I remember and if it will provide enough power. 

 

 

[Gnote]

 I've never heard one but I am really attracted to the look of that amp . Enjoy !

 

[CWelsh]

4 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 Excited to have found a replacement amp for my 275 so quickly the VTA-20's don't come up for sale too often. I've had a couple of these already over the years and really enjoyed the sound and performance they offer but honestly back when I had them I was still very much in "party mode" with my Chorus II's and they just couldn't hang when pushed. Now I'm a bit older and my situation and speakers have changed-- curious to see if these sound as good as I remember and if it will provide enough power.

 

That looks sweet! Were you able to return the 275?

[jjptkd]

31 minutes ago, CWelsh said:

 

That looks sweet! Were you able to return the 275?

 

Thanks! Yes I paid return shipping of $105 and offered to pay a restock fee as I felt a little guilty using the amp for 6 months but they declined. 

 

This VTA amp has point to point wiring and class 2 wiring for safety-- should last longer and be safer to use hopefully it sounds as good and has enough power. 

[CWelsh]

17 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

Thanks! Yes I paid return shipping of $105 and offered to pay a restock fee as I felt a little guilty using the amp for 6 months but they declined. 

 

This VTA amp has point to point wiring and class 2 wiring for safety-- should last longer and be safer to use hopefully it sounds as good and has enough power. 

I suspect it will be more than enough power. Congratulations! I look forward to your review after you've had time to listen a bit.

[captainbeefheart]

What a difference in quality vs the Crimson 275!! 

 

The 275 was a shill attempt to deceive people into paying too much for a cost trimming commercial amplifier. I think if the 275 sold for $800 it would be great but not for it's price tag. These amps are much higher quality and meet published specs.

[Shakeydeal]

I saw that one and would have bought it myself if the Captain wasn’t knee deep in building my amp. Congrats!

[Jaxwired]

I have been using a carver vta20s with my Cornwall IIIs for about 2 years now.  The amp has fantastic synergy with with the cornwalls.  I added a khozmo passive preamp in front of it for remote control.  BTW, I highly recommend changing the stock tubes.   I used the stock tubes for quite some time but when I change the el84ms out for 7189s it was next level.  
 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Jaxwired

[jjptkd]

14 hours ago, Jaxwired said:

 I change the el84ms out for 7189s it was next level.  

 

 Nice room, thanks for sharing! Can I ask which brand of 7189 tubes you went with? Which 12ax7 tubes? Thanks!

 

 

[Jaxwired]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:02 PM, jjptkd said:

 

 Nice room, thanks for sharing! Can I ask which brand of 7189 tubes you went with? Which 12ax7 tubes? Thanks!

 

 

 

Using the preferred series from the tube store. They are 1980s NOS tubes. I actually have a set for sale in audiogon right now if you want to buy them. They’re brand new. And cheaper than you can get them from the tube store. I guarantee they will improve the sound of that amp.  As for the 12aX7 tubes I’m using new issue tungsol tubes from upscale audio.   I also have new issue Mullards but I found the tungsol to be cleaner and crisper which I prefer.

[jjptkd]

 So I got the amp up and running Tuesday unpacked it ensured tubes were securely in place (the amp was shipped with tubes installed) and let her rip for a bit. Initial impressions were much bigger / wider soundstage, significantly more bass with just a slight loss of resolution as compared to my Topping PA5. Turning the volume up a bit the bass seemed to break up not sound very clean and I could push the amp seemingly to its limits although it was playing quite loud, much louder then I normally listen. 

 

 As the amp compares to my memory of the 275-- even though the soundstage is wide and tall, beyond the speakers it seems it does not have the depth of the 275. I also think the 275 has even more bass that seems lower and less distorted and I could never push the 275 to ever even hint at being over-driven, even when trying. Voices seemed to be larger with more weight. Overall I'd say the 275 built on what the VTA-20 does well and even beyond. 

 

 Having said all of that I thought its time to replace the tubes that came with the amp as I have no history on them and the amp is over 10 years old. Luckily I was able to locate some new Sovtek EL-84m's (which came stock in the amp when new) and some gold pin JJ's 12ax7's. First thing I noticed was the input tubes were mis-matched-- a Tung-sol and a National? Not sure how much difference that would make. Next the power tubes are old-- label markings are worn off can barely see on a couple of the tubes that they used to have writing on them, one tube has "2C4" written on the bottom and one tube looks burnt inside. The internal structures do not match the new tubes I bought. 

 

 I have the new tubes burning in now and immediately the sound is better, no more distorted bass and the amp seems to play louder, haven't really pushed it yet with the new tubes. I bought the above set of 7189's they are due to arrive today not sure if they will make a difference or not but willing to try them out. From what I've read they are very similar to the EL-84m's.  

 

 

[flatgrass]

@Jaxwired How did you get the khozmo in black?  Have never seen that option.

[jjptkd]

 Well this little Carver amp is sounding pretty good with the new tubes and a little bit of burn in time. I installed the "Preferred" 7189's from @Jaxwired and wow, what a difference! Guitars, cymbals, the little "thwack" the drum stick makes really stand out and overall resolution is much clearer than with the EL-84m's. Bass is strong and undistorted, soundstage is big and sound is very "real," actually got goose bumps last night I believe for the first time since my 275 left the house. 

 

I remembered this morning I wasn't totally happy with the 275 until after about 100 hours of burn in-- it seemed to smooth out and open up even more after about 200 hours. So with this in mind I'm going to let this little amp sing for some time before giving it a full review but so far I really like what I'm hearing.  

[Shakeydeal]

So what do you think about the amp after listening for a few days?

 

 

[Jaxwired]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:14 PM, flatgrass said:

@Jaxwired How did you get the khozmo in black?  Have never seen that option.

 

Just emailed Arek and he hooked me up.  The Khozmo is the best passive I've tried and by a long measure.  It's also one of the most gorgeously constructed components I've ever owned.  

 

On 3/25/2022 at 9:01 AM, jjptkd said:

 Well this little Carver amp is sounding pretty good with the new tubes and a little bit of burn in time. I installed the "Preferred" 7189's from @Jaxwired and wow, what a difference! Guitars, cymbals, the little "thwack" the drum stick makes really stand out and overall resolution is much clearer than with the EL-84m's. Bass is strong and undistorted, soundstage is big and sound is very "real," actually got goose bumps last night I believe for the first time since my 275 left the house. 

 

I remembered this morning I wasn't totally happy with the 275 until after about 100 hours of burn in-- it seemed to smooth out and open up even more after about 200 hours. So with this in mind I'm going to let this little amp sing for some time before giving it a full review but so far I really like what I'm hearing.  

 

Glad you like the tubes.  Your experience is the same as mine.  The 7189s made a big difference in sound quality over the EL84Ms.  Very surprising.  Those are NOS tubes, from the 80s.   

[billybob]

Wish someone would hook me up...🤔

[jjptkd]

6 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

So what do you think about the amp after listening for a few days?

 

 

Overall I'm already quite happy with it--  I've had it running 10-12 hours a day since last Thursday trying to speed up the tube break in process. So far it is sounding very nice, much like the 275 just doesn't have quite the depth of soundstage or bass response. Bass response is very good mind you just not like the 275.

 

 

[jjptkd]

 So another update, tubes have close to 200 hours on them by now kind of stopped keeping track after about 150 hours. The amp has really settled in and sounds very nice yet I'm reminded of my previous experience with this amp some 8-10 years ago-- it sounds like a really nice solid state amp more than the typical tube fluff amp like the 275. Wide soundstage just doesn't have the depth or 3-D imaging like the 275 had.  

 

 Right now I've been A-B-ing this VTA-20 with my recently acquired Sunfire Signature 600 amplifier and they actually sound very much alike, biggest difference is bass output where the Sunfire is spot on with what I remember the 275 being, very authoritative and plentiful, actually have to dial it back on some tracks. The 600 reminds me of why I fell in love with the Chorus line up in the first place, the 15" k-48's when powered properly are just amazing even at low volumes. Not just sub bass but adds thickness to the speaker as a whole well up into the mid range. 

 

 My impressions as of now are the 600 has the edge on bass / lower mid range and obviously power output / headroom where the 20 has a slightly wider soundstage, a bit warmer / smoother sounding but not by much, they really do sound quite a bit alike. 

 

 

 

[Shiva]

You hit on a quality that I love about Klipsch, the Epics in my case,  how well they sound even at low volume.  I could have the receiver down to minus 45 or 50 during night time listening and I can still hear and feel a little impact of the bass.  I find that interesting. 

  Sounds to me like the 600 is going to be your main go to amp. Thanks for the reviews and pics.

[jjptkd]

11 minutes ago, Shiva said:

  Sounds to me like the 600 is going to be your main go to amp. Thanks for the reviews and pics.

 

As luck would have it I ended up with 2 of the Sunfire 600's, the first one I bought is one of the first ones made, '97? It has the fixed power cable and plastic binding posts, its sitting at Flannery's Vintage Audio now ready for me to pick up after a full restoration. I'm taking the second one I picked up with me to trade them out so I can have that one refurbished as well. The second one I picked up is one of the last of the original models made, late '00's? its pretty much the same amp it just has a removable power cable and much nicer metal binding posts. 

 

 Honestly I still miss my old Carver 275-- I can't wait to see the new ones when they come out end of this month I may end up ordering one who knows..