KT88 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I was able to buy Klipsch horns first hand from 1973 and I am very happy with this purchase. Unfortunately, one woofer is rattling at the voice coil. Question, I have absolutely no experience with Khorns while I know the old LaScala fairly well. How do you remove the woofer from the bass cabinet? There are eight screws, not only 4 like on my 1977 LaScala. The screws from behind are hardly to reach. Then I see these two black metal rods with 2 wing nuts each fixed that obviously fixes the baffle together with the screw mounted woofer to the compression opening? Do I only have to loosen these wing nuts then remove the rods and can I then remove the woofer with the baffle from the side where I have access tp the woofer chamber? Please have a look at the photos. Many thanks for your valued help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Question.... (first, a direct answer to your question..... "I don't know") That said, it looks like the driver might be attached to a square piece of plywood....as such, I'm wondering if you take the four wingnuts off, the whole assembly comes out. Pull out, take screws off to separate from the piece of wood.... do what you need to driver, reassemble in reverse order. Me being a bit OCD might mark the driver so I know how it came out and then depending on me fixing it or replacing it, maybe rotate it 180 degrees so the now top, becomes the new bottom. Reverse to put back.....attach to piece of wood in correct orientation, slide back in and put wingnuts back on. That's my story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W. Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 You are correct.... Remove the four wing nuts and the retaining bars and disconnect the woofer cable from the woofer door terminal. The woofer and motor board are removed as a unit. There may be gasket material between the front of the motor board and the throat area. Be gentle but persistent when working this off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 Thank you very much for your answers, very quick and competent as so often in this forum. I have already thought about the 180 degree rotation of the basket as I did it with other heavy magnet woofers. Two more questions. Are there any qualitative differences between these woofers with round magnets and the later ones with square magnets? It's just an informational question, I want to keep these Khorns as original as possible with the original drivers. Second question, I see nuts in the area of the centering spider. Can I carefully loosen them a little and use the ear to re-center the voice coil? Or do these nuts (or screws with hexagonal heads) have a different function. Does a specialist have to carefully bend the basket of the woofer to free the voice coil, and I can't do anything myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, KT88 said: I was able to buy Klipsch horns first hand from 1973 and I am very happy with this purchase. Unfortunately, one woofer is rattling at the voice coil. 1 hour ago, KT88 said: Does a specialist have to carefully bend the basket of the woofer to free the voice coil, and I can't do anything myself? I also had a similar woofer rattle with one of my old Klipschorns and after studying all the repair options, decided to just buy 2 new woofers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 Another consideration. I am of course very curious to experience my (for me new and first) Khorns. I still have 1977 LaSaclas with perfectly working K77 E. In the 1973 Khorns are K77 P. I have in the last hour read something about it here in the forum. The resonance frequency of the E is lower. If I install the K33 E of the LaScala in the Khorns in the meantime, can that be wrong? The LaScala are not needed at the moment. I assume that other changes to the Khorns from 1973 to 1977 did not take place? I have not found anything in the Khorn timeline to indicate that the size of the compression opening was changed during this period? The AA xover also remained the same between 1973 and 1977, so can I use the K77E in the Khorn? Would they be the better solution anyway? Did LaScala also have a K77 P in 1973? Actually, I wanted to keep the Khorn all original, but if the K77 E were an improvement, maybe I would keep them in the Khorn? Sorry, lots of questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 You have me confused with the switching between K33 and K77. Square magnet K-33-Es made by Eminence are older than round magnet K-33-Es. The square magnet K-33-Es have a lower Fs, reportedly (I haven't tested them.). I *believe* the change may have been an attempt to raise output in the 300 to 400 Hz range and did not cause the low bass to change significantly. K-33-Ps would have been used in every 15" Klipsch at that time. Your La Scala woofers will be exact replacements for your Klipschorn. The horn itself governs much of the woofer's performance, so minor differences will not show up. I'd swap them. Then, I'd look at other, higher power rated woofers for your La Scalas like K-43s, a popular cast frame replacement, or popular bespoke Eminence woofers. They will tolerate higher power and more excursion, if you choose well, allowing you to safely add EQ between 40 and 60 Hz. PM me if you like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 33 minutes ago, JohnA said: You have me confused with the switching between K33 and K77. Square magnet K-33-Es made by Eminence are older than round magnet K-33-Es. The square magnet K-33-Es have a lower Fs, reportedly (I haven't tested them.). I *believe* the change may have been an attempt to raise output in the 300 to 400 Hz range and did not cause the low bass to change significantly. K-33-Ps would have been used in every 15" Klipsch at that time. Your La Scala woofers will be exact replacements for your Klipschorn. The horn itself governs much of the woofer's performance, so minor differences will not show up. I'd swap them. Then, I'd look at other, higher power rated woofers for your La Scalas like K-43s, a popular cast frame replacement, or popular bespoke Eminence woofers. They will tolerate higher power and more excursion, if you choose well, allowing you to safely add EQ between 40 and 60 Hz. PM me if you like. Sorry, I've just seen the confusion I've caused. It's been a long day...Everything should be K33 of course. So a K33 E from that era with square magnets helps support the upper bass in the Khorn. The upper bass is - beside all the good qualities - a tad of the weak point of the Khorn in my first impression, especially when I was used to listen to LaScalas. Since I am in Germany I would like to avoid original Klipsch woofers for the LaScala because of the high duty, import tax and shipping costs. But you can buy regular Eminence woofers fairly cheaply over here. What would be a regular Eminence type that would be a good fit for the LaScala? If I were to sell the LaScala, would it perhaps be worth considering having the K77 P from the Khorn repaired and selling it with the LaScala. If as you say at the time around 1973 all 15” Klipsch speakers had a K33 P, a potential buyer would not get something wrong. If I would keep the LS I didn't want to overdo it financially and I would like to stick with sheet metal frames for the LaScala woofer. I've read several times that the cast woofer frames sometimes don't really fit into the LaScsla and that in some cases you have to remove some wood. That was in connection with the. Crites woofers. For more detailed questions I will gladly write PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 @KT88, more confusion for you, your first picture shows a K-33-V ?! …your welcome, lol As to your thoughts about using the woofers from your La Scalas in the Khorns and buying new Eminence woofers for the La Scalas, from my experience that is pretty sound thinking. Unless… the bass bin for YOUR model of Khorn was designed differently from the ones using the K-33-E ? I thought I had read something on this forum about a bass bin change, maybe in the AK crossover versions, so maybe of no consequence to you ? Regarding the La Scalas, I gave the Kappa 15Cs a run in my “regular” La Scalas with the AL-3 crossover years ago and was instantly taken aback by the increase in all aspects of their performance compared to the K-33s they replaced. The best word I could find to describe the impact was “supercharged”. I now own LSI Splits with the K-43 woofers, and the Kappa 15Cs are in my FH-1 bins. I whole-heartedly preferred the 15Cs in the Peavey bins as well though when compared to both the square magnet and round magnet K-33s I have floating around. One caveat though is that the foam gaskets on the Kappa 15Cs need to replaced with a hard paper gasket kit. I believe a significant amount of the energy and dynamics the woofer produces would be lost by having a “shock absorber” between the woofer frame and the motorboard. I had originally gotten around this necessity by torquing down the screws so tight the foam was compressed into the woofer frame, but in retrospect I was lucky I didn’t strip or snap a bolt, or warp the stamped frame. Even with torquing them like the bolt pattern on a car tire. My current pairs have had the foam gaskets replaced with paper. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, geoff. said: @KT88, more confusion for you, your first picture shows a K-33-V ?! …your welcome, lol As to your thoughts about using the woofers from your La Scalas in the Khorns and buying new Eminence woofers for the La Scalas, from my experience that is pretty sound thinking. Unless… the bass bin for YOUR model of Khorn was designed differently from the ones using the K-33-E ? I thought I had read something on this forum about a bass bin change, maybe in the AK crossover versions, so maybe of no consequence to you ? Regarding the La Scalas, I gave the Kappa 15Cs a run in my “regular” La Scalas with the AL-3 crossover years ago and was instantly taken aback by the increase in all aspects of their performance compared to the K-33s they replaced. The best word I could find to describe the impact was “supercharged”. I now own LSI Splits with the K-43 woofers, and the Kappa 15Cs are in my FH-1 bins. I whole-heartedly preferred the 15Cs in the Peavey bins as well though when compared to both the square magnet and round magnet K-33s I have floating around. One caveat though is that the foam gaskets on the Kappa 15Cs need to replaced with a hard paper gasket kit. I believe a significant amount of the energy and dynamics the woofer produces would be lost by having a “shock absorber” between the woofer frame and the motorboard. I had originally gotten around this necessity by torquing down the screws so tight the foam was compressed into the woofer frame, but in retrospect I was lucky I didn’t strip or snap a bolt, or warp the stamped frame. Even with torquing them like the bolt pattern on a car tire. My current pairs have had the foam gaskets replaced with paper. Well, thanks a lot for your hint, geoff. I googled K33 P and V. I have found this old thread after you mentioned it. I have no clue about the „V“ version. But when I opened the bass bin today I was a little bit confused how strong the magnet is and how heavy these animals look, much different to my K33 E in my LaScalas. I am no expert but such a strong magnet would mean that the resonance freq. is much higher than it should be for a proper use in the Khorn? In the „timeline“ a K33 V is not mentioned. In addition I googled a bit and found that a genuine „P“ of the time around 1973 should also have a square magnet? At least the pics in the net seem to show square magnets. My new purchase is from a first hand buyer (who sadly passed away two years ago, so his very kind and honest family sold it to me). BTW the speakers are mint and the price was so fair that every investment in proper right drivers is no issue at all for me. (investing mew drivers in the Khorn or my LS when I use their K33 E in the Khorn). Was there a time when those „V“ drivers were built in on a regular manner, or is it possible that the owner had a failed original driver and some workshop has replaced them for this „V“ version at some point of time during the last 51 years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Congrats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 The motor board was glued to the neck of the horn for all eternity. I didn't want to force it apart. Fortunately, I was able to reach all the screws of the woofer without having to have the hands of a gynecologist. To install the K33 E of the LS I will buy new shorter wood screws tomorrow because the edge of the K33 E has a thinner seal. This way I avoid screwing into the wood of the horn throat. For the LS (or maybe even later for the KH) I found a relatively new woofer production that I can buy for reasonable money in Germany. https://www.soundimports.eu/de/grs-k-33-4.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 I have got slightly shorter screws from a special store to mount the K33 into the Khorn. BTW this 1977 K33 from my LS just read K33 without an „E“. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Heinz, I'm looking forward to pics of your new acquisition. Also, I'm guessing you haven't done anything with the transformers. I'm so far behind on projects I'm not really one to be talking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 10 hours ago, Marvel said: Heinz, I'm looking forward to pics of your new acquisition. Also, I'm guessing you haven't done anything with the transformers. I'm so far behind on projects I'm not really one to be talking. Thanks Marvel, I have moved the project with the transformers (and cabling) to the back for now. I came across this horn and would like to keep it as original as possible with just a few measures. I'm taking my time to get used to the horn and the horn to me. Replacing the bass drivers was not planned but necessary to have a starting point because one of them was rattling. I'm also not sure if it's a decentered voice coil. Because it also rattles when I tap the cone lightly with my finger when the woofer is put on the table the magnet facing down. A decentered voice coil would not rattle when tapped I think. It looks more like something has come loose. But no matter, since these K33 “V” are perhaps the only area that could not be original? On Saturday we are on vacation with my 89-year-old mother for the next two weeks. After that, I'll start carefully. New rubber seals, and days later I'll start by connecting my type AA from the LaScala with the polyester caps just to have a benchmark because the coils are almost identical since I happily found the original T2A in the cellar somewhere.. The original caps in the KH look dry, but I have to measure them after 51 years. One squaker seems to be a bit quieter, of course this could have other causes but I'll start with the Xover. I even have a set of brand new original never used JEM caps for the AA that I might use. The original caps will definitely stay on the xover for visual reasons of originality. There's not much more to do for now. Once these measures have been carried out, I will take my time and weeks later install the K55V of my 1977 LS for comparison, as they have had new original Atlas diaphragms since 3 years. Then I can see whether the 1973 K55V from the Khorn could also benefit from new ones. If there is no difference in sound then the old diaphragms will stay. Apart from cleaning all the contacts, I've then actually done enough. I am also happy that I have the original wiring of the Khorn. With the LS, I thought 18 years ago that everything had to be “new” and “better”. In hindsight, that was complete nonsense from my point of view today. I had done the interior wiring with Kimber 4TC, I had bought an ALK Universal crossover. In my subjective case, the ALK crossover meant that I heard less and less music. Back came the type AA. I no longer have to make all these detours and mistakes. I also don't have another 20 “spare years” for what I consider to be stupid gimmicks🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 On 6/9/2024 at 1:43 AM, KT88 said: If I were to sell the LaScala, would it perhaps be worth considering having the K77 P from the Khorn repaired and selling it with the LaScala. If as you say at the time around 1973 all 15” Klipsch speakers had a K33 P, a potential buyer would not get something wrong. Oh my god, reading it again, I see that I had already mixed up the letters in the post and the corresponding woofers. It was a bad day for my mental fitness. No wonder you should despair of me. I don't have a “P” but a “V”. And I'm not going to sell this “V” to anyone, especially not “blind” and built into a case. It was not malicious intent. I have never deceived anyone in my life with sales. Sorry for the confusion. And that would be a very different case in coparison to the sellers of the Khorn who are the descendants of the owner and who offered it quite honestly in good faith and who could not have known it after 51 years. Especially since there is also the possibility that these “V” were perhaps already in the KH when the owner bought it, perhaps used young, whatever way the “V” got in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 I'm happy for you... I have thought recenty that I could happily live with La Scalas or a set of Khorns and stop messing around with all this other stuff. Today is my 75 birthday... I expect to have many more years, but I have so much stuff. Enjoy the vacation time with your mother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 1 hour ago, Marvel said: I'm happy for you... I have thought recenty that I could happily live with La Scalas or a set of Khorns and stop messing around with all this other stuff. Today is my 75 birthday... I expect tive many more years, but I have so much stuff. Enjoy the vacation time with your mother. Marvel I wish you all the best, good health, success and happiness for today on your anniversary and for the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 On 6/8/2024 at 4:29 PM, Khornukopia said: I also had a similar woofer rattle with one of my old Klipschorns and after studying all the repair options, decided to just buy 2 new woofers. ReCone is nearly as much as New. ,,🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Warranty may be sketchy on a ReCone also ...Except for Altec and JBL with cast baskets I avoid recones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.