garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 3:31:59 PM mobile homeless wrote: Gary, the reference to "dont grasp this one" was in reference to that infamous "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT" bumper sticker that contradicts EVERYTHING the United States was founded on. I still hear AmeriGoons saying this type of tripe today, unaware of the meaning of the words. kh ---------------- Sorry. I reread. I guess I was a little juiced up at the Quebec thing and didn't read through very carefully. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Arnold should like this bumper sticker: "Love it, or Leave it to Beaver!" fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 BTW, My doctor put me on a heavy prednisone dose last week and it's making me moody as hell. Whether I mean it or not, don't take anything I say too personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 2:16:28 PM mobile homeless wrote: I cant wait for the next PURELY ALL-AMERICAN REFRAIN heaping with irony: USA! LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT! Most dont even grasp this one. IT was the height of bumper sticker ignorance and irony, with those driving along, completely oblivious. kh ---------------- This bumper sticker ORIGINALLY was penned regarding the freedom we have. We can love the U.S.of A. or we have the right to leave it. Having spent time in Ottawa with the Commissioner of the RCMP and the Solicitour General of Canada, plus the Assistant Attorney General of the United States I can attest to the rights we hold. In comparison Canada has fees, the U.S. has fees. Canada has sales and property taxes, the U.S. has sales taxes in many States. Canada has the G.S.T., which boosts the price to Canadian buyers. Speaking as an Honorary Inspector with Constabulary in the U.K., they have a very good regard for America. I am a liberal, a registered Republican. When people start posts with an attitude of "well, this is above your head," or "those Democrats..." Well then we go to you Klipsch owners. One can NOT judge by race, creed, color or political affiliation. Or liberal - non liberal. I will defend America, I will never sink to a cowardly level of stating that I am from another Country. California residents took advantage of part of their rights - whether we like it or not. It is a shame that decisions are made by 30 second sound bytes. But the generation younger than I also mandate one (1) or two (2) airings of an episode of a TV show. If it doesn't pull enough, most of the time it's yanked. This Forum is a showing of what is good in America - we state our views. When we are all California residents we have a right to complain. Parents, Teachers, the Media have the duty to teach who our Chief Justice is, or who our elected Representative is. I have not missed voting in an election since I became 18 years of age. I love to hear those complaints from citizens that do not even bother to vote. When we study Countries, in some form or fashion we can say the grass is greener. But how much of our income do we spend on average versus what it would cost in another Country. We live in a country where the average newspaper is set toward fifth or sixth grade. We should demand more. But you look at our infra-structure, our ability to move freely, our right to have a recall vote that is the U.S.. We need no pontificating that we don't understand. Start naming issues, when truly compared we usually have it better. So, if ONE State decides to have a recall vote, we must blame those homo loving, cheating, tax raising Democrats. I support Gary MD. I look at the true "America, love it or leave it" and stand tall as an Americxn Citizen. When liberals are critcized too much and we have but one point of view is that not a quasi-dictatorship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Well I don't know about the " Love it or Leave it" saying. But I know one thing I'm pretty surprised that someone that is so ashamed of the country he resides in that he would lie about being a resident of that country while traveling abroad would ever return ! Except maybe to pack up and leave ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I can relate to that. Americans abroad in general behave with little respect for the locals. I for one would not want to be lumped in with the vast majority of Carnival cruise schmucks that I have seen while vacationing. Nope, I'll take back roads and get some curried goat and Hawaiian punch with a good dose of Appleton rum, thank you very much! In general, Americans on vacation remind me of growing up in a college town (where I eventually attended said college). They puke in people's lawns and break bottles in the streets, then complain when people generalize about "Them punk *** kids!!" Present company excepted, natch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 3:43:49 PM fini wrote: Arnold should like this bumper sticker: "Love it, or Leave it to Beaver!" fini ---------------- fini, Once again, thanks for the laugh. Holy crap, you kill me. Regards, Chris "Have you ever eaten beaver?" - Roger Daltrey, recent History Channel promo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Hello: I state that at this time of year I get moody. That may affect certain attitudes and responses. I will state that even with flaws - real or perceived- I am happy being an American, as I hope that all residents within the boundaries of a Country will state the same. I mean no degradation for not being American - we are not perfect. We try with what we have. We accept defeat as we accept victory. The world is much closer. Lines of Citizenship can become blurred. But, for each person that complains about America, I usually can find someone that wishes to live here - single or dual Citizenship status. For the Canadians, the Germans, the Greeks and through each Country, I know that you have love and respect for your Country and will defend it. I wish to be a host to those visiting America. I do not want to force them to become Americans. I want them to see the best that America has to offer. I would want the same visiting another Country. I know the bad and I know it can happen anywhere, to either a higher or lower percentage. If my last post offended Poster's from another Country, I extend my sincere apologies. That was not my intent. Other Countries can be as beautiful as this. So if taken wrong, again, my apologies. And Fini you did it again Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 NOTE: Post below written before reading post above...in response to your FIRST post: Jesus, Dodger... Here we go again. How many ways can you misread a post? How about EVER WHICH WAY. Even GARY realized it. Once again, the "cant grasp this" was in reference to the BUMPER STICKER, which you evidently missed the point on as well. That was NOT meant to champion the choice of "Love it" or "you can leave it." IF you think that, you missed the ball totally on that one. Lord. It was penned to say, "AMERICA: EITHER LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!" Where in the world did you get that this was championed as a POSITIVE aspect???? It was a conservative battle cry against the protests in AMerica! And it SMACKED with irony like other Conservative catch phrases meant to appeal to the unthinking. And I, for one, dont think my statement in Italy was a "cowardly" one at all; even though it was a joke. I WAS embarrassed by what wee were doing with our Goverment! Frankly, your PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" comeback misses the boat one more time, as if stating that anything said in criticism on the absolutely "UN-AMERICAN" choices be made by our leadership is cowardly. Thing like a PREEMPTIVE STRIKE on another country, something NEVER been done in our history, and for good reason (people are STILL clueless regarding the bait and swithc of that one, although more see it for what it was). You just dont get the meaning of these words. Cowardly? Hell, it is this PRIDE and blind patriotism that sparks so much HELL in this world, both here and abroad. Frankly, I think our choices have been anything but what AMERICA stands for. And finally, what is that last "I SUPPORT GARY MD" commnet about? Amazing. Where is this stuff coming from? I can only shake my head... I reread your whole post and just couldnt make sense of it besides the fact that I STILL THINk YOU MEAN WELL. You have the proverbial heart of gold, but somewhere the heart and mind just dont come together with all threads intact. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 4:06:00 PM bclarke421 wrote: I can relate to that. Americans abroad in general behave with little respect for the locals. I for one would not want to be lumped in with the vast majority of Carnival cruise schmucks that I have seen while vacationing. Nope, I'll take back roads and get some curried goat and Hawaiian punch with a good dose of Appleton rum, thank you very much! In general, Americans on vacation remind me of growing up in a college town (where I eventually attended said college). They puke in people's lawns and break bottles in the streets, then complain when people generalize about "Them punk *** kids!!" Present company excepted, natch. ---------------- Hello: Yes we can be arrogant. That should not be the case, but it is. The best we can do is to be as civil as we can whether travelling or meeting a visitor to our Country. One at a time we can rectify poor treatment. That should not be difficult. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Hello: SECOND EDIT Mobile, please re-read my post. I gave the history of the "Love it or leave it" bumper sticker. The history of it was taught in my American Studies and History of the Viet Nam War classes. We both did not want the strict interpretation, we wanted the meaning of the words and their background to be shown. The bumper sticker is being revived to silence anyone that criticizes any of our foreign policy. We both know that should not be the case. We very well can speak our mind. And with the tone of this thread, it was done in California. Is it right, if truly lazy leadership wasted monry, possibly. But since I don't live in California to answer that would be unfair. I stated my personal beliefs as to what an American or fill in the blank, should be. I know you mean well by pointing out any misunderstandings of my post. Americans can behave in a manner that may be embarassing. But, as long as you were not acting that way, YOU should not be the scapegoat, or have to apologize for America, or state a different Citizenship. You missed what I meant in my post. I know you feel mis-understood. I did not take aim at you. The comment about being cowardly regarding Citizenship is one taught at Academies and training camps across the U.S.. When we travel we ARE representing America, we have American Uniforms worn to Diplomatic or other affairs. We state our Citizenship, we are all representing America. I know you want to think it is me against you, or I am reacting to your statements alone. I am reacting to a number of statements and posting a point to ponder, or points. This discourse is good. I try to utilize words that will effectively convet rhe correct meaning, with no implication, inferrence or reading between the lines necessary. It seems you have done so. My comment about agreeing with Gary speaks for itself his reaction and knowing how Prednisone can affect your mood. Relax, this is a Forum, Kelly. You made the comment about stating different Citizenship. I do not believe that you would act in a manner to demean Americans, so why not be proud and state American Citizenship. You could have been a model. You are taking this too personally and too seriously. Again, I say relax, I did not state any example of any rude behaviour by you. I stated beliefs that we all can have - not that we must have. No problem Kelly. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 9:48:23 AM garymd wrote: You can't blame the republicans for Arnold. He's not even a real republican for crying out loud. Jesse "The Body" is an independent. What other movie star/strong man (leave RR out) in the republican party has run successfully for office? ---------------- Retired Sen. Fred Thompson, fmr actor, R Tenn. (?) Fmr. major league pitcher Jim Bunning, Sen., Kentucky Sonny Bono, Rep., CA. P.S. I really wanted to know what that amp sounded like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 P.S. I really wanted to know what that amp sounded like! Lord, this is the quote of the thread at this stage... heh... Beauty. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Mdeneen-"I'm voting for the L.A. stripper. Hell, if I'm going to be groped OR screwed I'd rather it be from the opposite sex". Your not saying you have a problem with elected officials groping and screwing women are you? As long as they can successfully accomplish the job they were elected to do, than who cares about any extracurricular activity, right? The people of California should worry no longer, Buffet will most certainly straighten that mess up. Good Lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 actually mark, el salvador is number one in murder (in the western hemisphere that is), we have to work hard for that title! please give us our due. by the way el salvador rules! ROTFLMAO! at all of you guys! tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 4:30:52 PM mobile homeless wrote: NOTE: Post below written before reading post above...in response to your FIRST post: Jesus, Dodger... Here we go again. How many ways can you misread a post? How about EVER WHICH WAY. Even GARY realized it. Once again, the "cant grasp this" was in reference to the BUMPER STICKER, which you evidently missed the point on as well. That was NOT meant to champion the choice of "Love it" or "you can leave it." IF you think that, you missed the ball totally on that one. Lord. It was penned to say, "AMERICA: EITHER LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!" Where in the world did you get that this was championed as a POSITIVE aspect???? It was a conservative battle cry against the protests in AMerica! And it SMACKED with irony like other Conservative catch phrases meant to appeal to the unthinking. And I, for one, dont think my statement in Italy was a "cowardly" one at all; even though it was a joke. I WAS embarrassed by what wee were doing with our Goverment! Frankly, your PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" comeback misses the boat one more time, as if stating that anything said in criticism on the absolutely "UN-AMERICAN" choices be made by our leadership is cowardly. Thing like a PREEMPTIVE STRIKE on another country, something NEVER been done in our history, and for good reason (people are STILL clueless regarding the bait and swithc of that one, although more see it for what it was). You just dont get the meaning of these words. Cowardly? Hell, it is this PRIDE and blind patriotism that sparks so much HELL in this world, both here and abroad. Frankly, I think our choices have been anything but what AMERICA stands for. And finally, what is that last "I SUPPORT GARY MD" commnet about? Amazing. Where is this stuff coming from? I can only shake my head... I reread your whole post and just couldnt make sense of it besides the fact that I STILL THINk YOU MEAN WELL. You have the proverbial heart of gold, but somewhere the heart and mind just dont come together with all threads intact. kh ---------------- Yes. EVEN Gary was smart enough to see the error in his statement. Well gee. I'll take that as a compliment. I've always been proud to tell others I'm from America when I've been overseas. I always will be. We all may not agree with our government's foreign policy all the time and I won't get into what Bush has done vs Clinton or Bush Sr. but I have family risking their lives right now who are proud to wear our country's uniform. Yes I'm moody and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. BTW - I support Dodger too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Mark, when you see it like that, laid bare to the bone, it's quite a vision. Yet I bet a good majority of the people in this forum are completely oblivious to most of those points. And they will remain so. And you know the sad thing? You spent about 10-15 minutes writing that. And the average American wouldnt spend 10 seconds scanning it. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 6:17:56 PM mobile homeless wrote: And you know the sad thing? You spent about 10-15 minutes writing that. And the average American wouldnt spend 10 seconds scanning it. kh ---------------- Another sad thing... Someone got painted this and somehow it got some value "We are the richest nation in the world, but who's workforce gets the shortest vacations in the world." Vive la France! They did understand what vacations were about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 5:27:11 PM mdeneen wrote: This is really too maudlin. The fact is people of any nation have a natural "affinity" to that home or homeland - whatever you may call it. This is good and natural and leads to a reasonable defense of its "goodness". Swedes like Sweden, and so on down the line. When the reasonable defense leads to blind Nationalism - well, uh-oh, guess where that's train's off to? American's don't get around much. They are not worldly as a whole. Their view of themselves is pretty much self-fantasy, fulfilled though TV and the newspaper. We murder 20M Indians not long ago in as clean a description of genocide as anyone could put on paper, and yet we "don't get it" when others do this. Oh, those crazy cowboys! We run sweatshops of illegals right in Los Angeles 20 miles from the beach, but only China and "others" have human rights problems, we're proudly free and democratic. We are ranked 14th in the world in delivering healthcare to its people. If being healthy isn't the core of a high standard of living, what is? We are number one in murder, though. hey, you have to be best at something. We are just about the last remaining so-called civilized country that uses the death penalty. We have millions of Americans who are simultaneously "pro-life" and "pro-death penalty" without anyone noticing the irony. We put people in jail for smoking pot. People who steal BILLIONS of dollars from other people can not even be prosecuted, let alone do time in jail. We are now housing in jails the highest percentage of its citizens of any country in the civilized world. 2 million in lockup - we have surpassed Russia. Finally. We are the richest nation in the world, but who's workforce gets the shortest vacations in the world. Poverty has RISEN in each of the last two years. An estimated 10 million children do not get ONE nutritious meal a day. All 2 million prison inmates get three. We shoot doctors as a "religious doctrine." We are the only country to have popped the cork on real WMD - TWICE - and by God, we are damned proud of it. We are the world's largest producer, exporter and marketer of weapons of both unitary and mass destruction. Quite the high horse we are riding though. I have no trouble at all finding many positive aspects, but none would blind me to the bad. While the heel-clicking, obedient "Patriots" all march around with the love it or leave it stickers and flags, I'll be back here working towards more "civilized" participation in this thing called the World. You can be so, so, rich and also be so, so very poor all at the same time. mdeneen ---------------- Your post has it all, collectivist liberal guilt (Native Americans/use of nukes to save how many of our GIs in Japan?); a touch of Christian-bashing (the last politically correct target, the Christian church has yet to condone murder); and more than a touch of pedantry and sanctimony (all of the above). It's never about the policy debate but the evils of the opponent. I think it's a waste of time and would be better suited to a site such as DemocraticUnderground.com. This is the last political statement I will ever make on this forum. As I stated above, it belongs elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 ---------------- On 10/8/2003 7:31:19 PM mdeneen wrote: gary - If the policy implications weren't crystal clear, perhaps it's wisest to make that your last "political" post! mdeneen P.S. I think the only thing missing from the Kincaid above is the (in)famous bumper sticker. ---------------- Ad hominem arguments seldom advance any discussion. P.S. I'm not a Kincaid fan either. We agree on something, heh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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