dodger Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Think about this: 20 years ago would we have thought about paying: $10,000 for an Amplifier $350 per foot for any cable - speaker or Interconnect $250.00 per NOS KT-88 $20,00 and up for any pair of Speakers 40 years ago would we have even dreamed that Interconnects or Speaker cable make any difference Would we have gold plated input or output terminals It's the old saying: "tell a lie often enough and you will begin to believe it." Some people HAVE to have what is considered the very best. To them Money, Logic and Fact mean Nothing. They want bragging rights. WE can say that we would not pay that much, but most of us are somewhere in the middle class. We research, we listen, we look at how much improvement we get for our dollar. WE set a limit on improvement vs cost - because we are not rich. We are rich in the support from this Forum. We are rich from the friends - real person or cyber that we have. We don't just drop in to a store and say give me your best - because we know that we will get shafted. Just my 2 cents. dodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I just have to post again, Im sorry, the magic in those cables is in the pretty box and nice piece of paper that it comes with and the price you paid for them. I must disagree with you nicholtl, WIRE IS WIRE, that is it, end of the argument! I firmly believe that any benefit that you hear with expensive wire is purely a function of mind over matter. If it is in your mind, the cost doesnt matter! I do believe that some components make a difference. Tube construction makes a difference in the way they sound. Different cartridges make a difference in the way an lp sounds. To a certain extent the placement and isolation of your equipment makes a difference in the way things sound due to feedback and micro phonics but if two pieces of wire transmit electricity with equal efficiency and speed, the electrons do not know or care what the wire is made from, how low the O2 content is, or how much you paid for it! WIRE IS WIRE!!!!! Physics is physics!! What you might be hearing in your different cables, (if in fact it is not just in your head) is the quality of construction of the connections. After you reach a point of quality, the differences just are not detectable to the human ear, IN THE MIND... YES but not in the ear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 1:20:50 AM lynnm wrote: Comes the day that electrons are able to recognise the difference between cheap wires and exotic wires I will reconsider my stance. ---------------- Hey, electrons have feelings, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I tend to think the wire argument is all nonsense and anyone shelling out big bucks for it has lost their mind. 11 grand for a phono cable - that is so far over the top as to be certifiable but... wire is wire is true, however, since when is all wire created equal? Different wire offered by different manufacturers will offer different resistance no? That said, my limit under any circumstance is about $50. That is all the value speaker wire holds for me. I don't care whose name is on it, what color it is, or how it was stored at 34 degrees submerged in a vat of Coors before being warmed up via the body heat of 15 nubile naked Swedish virgins. Although... I might pay to watch it made in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 3:40:40 AM nicholtl wrote: Only I'd return to my dream system, and you'd be convincing yourself that you're not jealous on the drive back. ---------------- A far more likely scenario than someone being jealous: The guy would go and tell all his friends how much was spent on these interconnects and they'd say stuff like: 1) The guy has more money than brains. 2) One's born every minute. 3) What is he compensating for? Et cetera, et cetera. I really don't see anyone saying, "Gosh, I wish I had $11,000 interconnects for my record player." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 If I had the money I would buy them. I would not tell anyone on this BB that I did buy them. As long as I am happy with the cables I don't see why it would upset anyone else. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 If you build it they will buy it..... The more expensive it is the better it is DUH that was first day of marketing. That and making the customer feel like they got a good deal. I think we should start a cable company. Blessed Cabled - cables blessed by the minister or priest of your faith for that heavenly sound : ) Gonna work on my business plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Ah, come on, dbflash. You could trust us. We'd promise not to make fun of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 O.K. we all know how we feel about cables, what about hi priced phono cartridges, what is the concensus on paying big bucks, say $500.00 and up. I would love to hear some of these high dollar carts to see were the cost to value factor comes in. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I got slammed for paying 2K for two pair of IC's. I get hammered because I do not like Home Depot speaker cable. The BB made fun of me because I expressed my thoughts that the Cowsills never recieved the respect they deserved from the Rock and Roll community. No Paul I would keep my mouth shut on this purchase. I would sit in my chair and wonder if they really sound 11 times better that my 1K cables. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 "Easy. I'd do just that. If I had $11,000 to spend on a cable, I would have it, and I would look you dead straight center in the eye and say, "I paid 11 grand for a set of cables." And you'd laugh, and I'd shrug, and we'd both go home. Only I'd return to my dream system, and you'd be convincing yourself that you're not jealous on the drive back." Jealous for what? Though, I'd drive back and head straight to the 'Shack and buy a pair of $11 bucks cables, plug it into my system and laugh at you again. And then shrug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 1:33:56 PM neo33 wrote: Jealous for what? Though, I'd drive back and head straight to the 'Shack and buy a pair of $11 bucks cables, plug it into my system and laugh at you again. And then shrug. ---------------- I'll suppose you thought that little twist on words was remarkably clever, huh? Well, that's deception at its finest. For the 1 millionth time, Neo, step out of the Matrix. Tell yourself that your $11 rat shack exhibit exceptional warmth and sonic quality all you want, but at the end of the day you know that is simply not true. Especially if you've come away from hearing an exceptional sounding cable costing a little more. In fact, I think the undermining and belittling tone of your post serves only exemplify the jealousy you have for those you claim to laugh at. What I am saying is not necessarily that the higher in price you go, then automatically, the higher a sound quality you attain. What I am saying is that IF we were able to afford these stratospherically priced cables, the same IF in the sentence: IF we only dined at restaurants where nothing on the menu listed a price, would we purchase them. Because, like Maxg points, why not? I believe many of us here, like Win (Dodger) noted, are good upstanding middle-class folk who know and understand the value of the dollar, and therefore must weigh each purchase in light of their cost-to-performance ratio. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But because we've grown up in this level of society, because we've been trained in this thought-process our entire lives, BECAUSE we are not on the front cover of Fortune Magazine, there is nothing in our life experience that would enable us transfer ourselves, mentally speaking, into a being of different social class and esteem altogether. Our minds have no basis for comparison if we ask it to imagine what life would be like in the shoes of someone like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, good ol' DT/Trumpster, or the Saudi Royal Family. Those people I have no doubt, if they were into home audio (which I do not think any of them are), would not hestitate to drop half a million dollars on a pair of Wavac amps, Nordost Valhalla interconnects, and maybe a special pink light that "puts you in the moviegoing mood." Again, at the risk of sounding repetitive, I whole-heartidly state that if thousands of dollars were but mere pennies in your grand estate of fortune, you would find yourself leaning towards more elitist products. Perhaps it's part bragging rights, I'll admit. But despite all your logic, intellect, or technical expertise, I highly, HIGHLY doubt you'd be paying any visits to Radio Shack anymore. Because any audiophile figures that if there is a tiny bit more performance to be nudged, coaxed, or squeezed from a system, and if there is the bank account to back it up, then by god they're going to pay what it takes to realize that potential. And if you don't think that way, you're either not an audiophile, or you've been a good parent for many years. I agree that by a certain point, even if there is a difference, electronic, subsonic, subliminal, or what have you, that exists in a cable, it is not audible to even the keenest of human ears. So in that sense, it is not the Point of Diminishing Returns, it becomes the Point of No Returns. Bill Gates, for all we know, could churn out a $3 million cable that I'm sure would sound no better than a $1000 one (look sexier, yes, but sound better, no), and people who could afford it would pick it up. It doesn't mean it's better. It simply means there are people willing to buy such things. And that's all I'm saying here today. If you could afford it -- and realize that means your whole life as you know it: your car, your job, your house, the schools your kids go to, the food you eat, the distance between you and your neighbors, the democratic or replublican state you live in, the economy airfare tickets you book, your entire state of mind, EVERYTHING, would change -- you would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Bill Gates for all we know, could churn out a $3 million cable that I'm sure would sound no better than a $1000 one (look sexier, yes, but sound better, no), and people who could afford it would pick it up. It doesn't mean it's better. ---------------- We all know that Steve Jobs is better at sexier products Couldn't resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Consider the source, Nich. ------------------- OK, so wire is wire. Stands to reason: Beer is beer. Pizza is pizza. Booty is booty. Etc... Unless you sit around on weekends drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon, eating Tony's frozen pizza, and having "relations" with a retired migrant worker with a real body hair issue, cables matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nick, Wealth and power corrupt. No doubt. But, and you knew there was a but... do you truly believe that having an excessive amount of money would render your common sense out the window? We are talking audiophile here but lets use a slightly different example. It doesn't matter if I had $10 million in disposable cash I could drop right now, I would not purchase a $30K toilet seat. I may not go to my local Lowes to buy a $10 seat because I could pay someone to do it but I damn sure couldn't find the value in the $30K model. Both perform their function and I don't need a diamond encrusted one to park my butt on. I think the same thing applies (at least for me) to audio or anything else. Now I do have expensive tastes and I do buy what I want rather than buying what is frugal, but a piece of wire holds a certain value for me as does other negligable items; underwear are only going to be worth so much to me regardless of income. Enjoying immense wealth still occurs with you placing certain values on things and you are not going to purposely spend more than the value you place on them. That is not to say you would not spend a fortune on some insignificant item if it held great value in terms of bragging rights or prestige. The analogy here would be whether you chose to spend $100 for a street walker or $10K for a night with (insert favorite actress here). In the end, the result would be the same but one might have a lot more value in terms of ego, bragging rights, and quite likely visual appeal. Now, I personally, would opt for the $10K provided I had the disposable income but that is my personal preference and where I place value. I would not pay $10K for a wire when I could achieve the same result for $100 because I don't value their contribution as highly as others. So, in summary, my hypothesis is greater disposable income results in you spending more money on items you place great value on and not on items across the board. If you think the cable argument is bogus, no amount of disposable income is going to alter that opinion in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 4:05:47 PM Anarchist wrote: Nick, The analogy here would be whether you chose to spend $100 for a street walker or $10K for a night with (insert favorite actress here). In the end, the result would be the same but one might have a lot more value in terms of ego, bragging rights, and quite likely visual appeal. ---------------- My dad always told me that it's shameful for a man to pay a woman money for the pleasure he gives her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Your dad is a smart man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Whatever, Nick! You can't even figure out (from reading my post) that I have better things to spend on with 11 grands (if I have that much to spend at all) and you think I live in a dream world? Hmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Bclarke, I like your analogies. I agree. Anarchist, that is a very good point about the toilet seat, lol. Hopefully people do not lose all common sense when rich. Meuge, your dad sounds cool. Neo, your retarded response speaks for itself, and I'm not even going to bother getting into it because you lack the mental capacity to process any more than .0002 bytes of information at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I am astonished at your level of intelligent, Nick. Especially one that always reverts to name-calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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