ooteedee Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 If a professional singer walked up to you and started singing right to your face...it would sound great. It would sound natural. But if that same person picked up a Klipsch k55 horn without the driver...and started singing through it.....it sounds worse. It sounds thin, narrow, like your singing through a tube, or an old megaphone. (Try it) With that in mind...........what's the big deal about horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 What if you record that singer and play back the recording through a Klipschorn or a La Scala? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 "...and started singing through it.....it sounds worse. It sounds thin" The K400 cuts off around 300hz... if you speak through one it will effectively roll off a voice around that point. Compared against a person speaking (full range) thin is a pretty good description of how it should sound. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I'm pretty much clueless as to understanding the sonics of recording and playback technology. Just know what I hear and whether it sounds good to my ears. To my ears, PWK's horns are fabulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 You can't compare the interface of a mouth to that of a driver on a horn. The impedence mismatch with a mouth is too great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris123 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 2:12:51 PM ooteedee wrote: If a professional singer walked up to you and started singing right to your face...it would sound great. It would sound natural. But if that same person picked up a Klipsch k55 horn without the driver...and started singing through it.....it sounds worse. It sounds thin, narrow, like your singing through a tube, or an old megaphone. (Try it) With that in mind...........what's the big deal about horns? ---------------- I tried the same experiment with my system. I unplugged the input cables from my preamp and had a professional singer hold the end of the coax cable as though it were a microphone and sing into it, while I listened to the speakers. All I got out of the speakers was a little 60 cycle hum every time she accidentally touched the coax connector with her lips. The amplifier is obviously worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Only thing that relates to what you say is what I say---the singer's voice is moving about 10 times the air from a 2/5" diameter mouth. So if I had three midrange horns with 1/3 equal power we would have the same diameter diaphram but not moving much air. Also the distortion would be reduced because the three horns would be at 1/3 power instead of 100%. This is how PWK controls distortion in the K-horn by making it very efficient thus eminating more sound with less voice coil movement. The less movement the less distortion. That's why they sound so clean. Would love to have my living room corners filled with horns. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 You just might have a point,I also noticed when I sing through my woofer it sounds unnatural.I can't believe no one ever noticed this before.I also tried singing through my Polks tweeters,same thing,sounded real bad,could it be All speakers have this defect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 By golly you are absolutely correct, just ship me all of your Klipsch horn loaded speakers and be done with it. My singing sounds much better in the shower, maybe you should hook your stuff up to your shower for sonic improvement. (Ya just had to know all of this was comming) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 A Liliput singing in a K-400 would sound terrific! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Perhaps an air-tight seal is required. Next time try an adhesive (super glue?) between the professional singer's lips and the horn. Please get back to us with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 OTD has a point. PWK covered it. If you listen to just a midrange horn it does sound pretty awful. Indeed it sounds like music on a bullhorn, which is the same thing. This comes about because the horn works well down to its cut off frequency and then pretty much stops functioning as a horn. It is not quite as bad as that, but you get the idea. This rapid cutoff is what causes the tinny sound from a midrange horn. PWK said as much. But, when you augment it with a bass driver (horn preferred) the effect goes away because the bass is back. As I've described, the sound from a bass horn of a K-Horn is fairly muffled when used alone. Here because the highs roll off very quickly. The bottom line is that put three horns together (low, mid, and high) the combination sounds marvelous. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Nicely stated Gil, and the Sarco_Meter (patent pending) is beginning to go back down. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 2:12:51 PM ooteedee wrote: If a professional singer walked up to you and started singing right to your face...it would sound great. It would sound natural. ---------------- That would be just plain wierd! And whether it sounded great or not would depend on the singer I suppose. I wonder what would happen if I put a paper cone over their mouth first? Fewer germs? Woo psst.... the ears are horns, and the mouth is a horn which amplifies the action of the vocal cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT66 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 What Ooteedee has described is a megaphone used to project sound by confining it into a narrow beam. That is why horns are highly directional - the bigger the horn mouth area the more directional.( see Beranek) This can be a problem hence the sweet-spot effect. Unassited sound, as emitted direct from the mouth is much less directional hence sounds more natural in a room. So apart from the LF cut-off introduced by the horn as descibed by others the other reason is this directional megaphone sound, beamed at you creating a different reverberation signature in the room. JBL used an acoustic lens to improve the problem in the famous mid horn used in the awesome Hartsfield. The ideal speaker would be omnidirectional evenly illuminating the room as would occur if the orchestra was playing in the room. This is where direct radiator designs score better than horns. Sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thanks Mr. McDermott, I was having quite the laugh, but knew you would bring the discussion full circle. Proving once again that there is a scientific explanation for even the most bizarre observation an audiophile can make. Michael Oh, yes, may I be excused from this week's reading? I'm driving from Indy to FL to pick up a pair of Cornwalls and Choruses. Thanks, I'll make it up when I get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 When I was experimenting with different midrange horns and drivers that's all that I listened to for about one year. I didn't use the tweeter or bass horn. Everyone but me hated the sound. I liked or tolerated it, because it made it a lot easier to hear the differences between the different horns and drivers. It was also easier to measure the frequency response of them. Once you add in the bass horn and tweeter the speaker blossoms like a flower in the morning sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Q man; Pretty impressive experimentation; I would not have the time or patience given my current hectic life. In regard to horn theroy. I went to the garage and got a hacksaw. Sawed the bell of my son's french horn. It sounds really bad. My son is none too happy. The CHorus IIs will stay intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooteedee Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Funny posts all! Explanations make sense. What is the difference in sound between a compression driver with a horn for midrange ......and a cone speaker for midrange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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