Deang Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 O.K. Joe -- I have you down for the AK-4 upgrade kit. However, I may have a potential buyer for the Klipschorns. Greg, my woodworking skills are meager at best. I do good finishing work, but the measuring once and cutting twice thing gets me every time. I was actually just going to buy the Jubilee LF section from a Klipsch-pro dealer here in Dayton. $1500 retail for one them -- which will have to do for now. I still need to call them back and work out the exact pricing. I would prefer to buy the LF section from Klipsch. In fact, I'm hoping several more of the goons here climb on board and do the same. If not, then everyone will simply have to give up their right to ***** about the Jubilee. No one has done a google search on Jobel yet? Man, you guys are in sadder shape than I thought. Quia Jobel est, sanctus erit vobis, agri comedetis fructum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 mmm, Jubilee bass bin with Dean's crossovers and ALK's new wood horns.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Nope, Al's horn won't accept 2" drivers. Like the Klipschorn (or any other speaker for that matter), several different types of networks will work. The normal variables will determine what works best for who. Also, since it's a two-way, active biamping becomes much more straight-forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dean, Try this Rane out: http://www.rane.com/ra30.html It's $419 from Sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RA30/ We have the previous model where I work. Perhaps you could rent one when you need it. It comes with a calibrarted microphone. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 dean, write earl geddes as well, this guy is a real genius in horn design and may have something marvelous just for your application (the mid-high horn on top of the Jobel bass bin). tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dean, I guess when I said "build", I wasn't really thinking about actually building with wood an all. For $3K I think it's worth it to get the Pro ones from Klipsch, then build the rest of the speakers around those. I think it's a great plan. So what's so elusive about the midrange horn? Is it the curve of the horn mouth or the driver? There has to be someone here at the Klipschland Ranch that can design a proper midrange horn that very closely mimics the prototype Jubilee horn, eh? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I don't know. If it were me I'd want to know as much as possible about the final revision of the bass horn before dropping kilobucks on the pro bass bin. You do your homework, though. Regardless, I look forward to following this. We must be getting used to Dean. Only a slight ribbing for flipping Khorns after a year! We're getting soft... What next? An Auratone in mono?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 "There has to be someone here at the Klipschland Ranch that can design a proper midrange horn that very closely mimics the prototype Jubilee horn, eh?" Greg, That is the "problem" with the Jubilee, there is no horn. Yes there is a pretty picture with PWK and a wood horned Jubilee. That was not a satisfactory sonic match. The one that DD and Tony heard while undoubtably good sounding, Does not meet the requirements for a two way with flat response out to 20KHz. The Jubilee has a cut-off higher than a Khorn ie; less bass. Pwk spent his life seeking the Holy Grail of a two way horn loaded speaker flat from 30-18KHz, his designs are three way for a reason. As much as I like Dean and his antics, he is no PWK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dean, Don't tell anyone what your doing if you do we may have you commited ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ---------------- On 3/18/2005 1:26:49 PM DeanG wrote: No one has done a google search on Jobel yet? Man, you guys are in sadder shape than I thought. Quia Jobel est, sanctus erit vobis, agri comedetis fructum. ---------------- No search needed if I get your meaning. Must not be any orthodox or native language jews around here.... So is it going to be a curved horn? You could make a huge subwoofer shaped like a football helmet, with the 'jobel' horns on each side, paint it blue and gold and sell it for $15,000 in St. Louis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Now Jared was the son of Enoch; whose son was Malaliel; whose son was Mathusela; whose son was Lamech; who had seventy-seven children by two wives, Silla and Ada. Of those children by Ada... ...one was Jabal: he erected tents, and loved the life of a shepherd. But Jubal, who was born of the same mother with him, exercised himself in music; and invented the psaltery and the harp. Note: From this Jubal, not improbably, came Jobel, the trumpet of jobel or jubilee; that large and loud musical instrument, used in proclaiming the liberty at the year of jubilee. Flavius Josephus Jewish Antiquities 1.60 (Whiston) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ---------------- On 3/18/2005 1:26:49 PM DeanG wrote: No one has done a google search on Jobel yet? Man, you guys are in sadder shape than I thought. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif"> Quia Jobel est, sanctus erit vobis, agri comedetis fructum. ---------------- Dean, you mean like the holy year of Jubilee... announced with a ram's horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Yes, that's it -- it's the Hebrew word for Jubilee, "a ram's horn", because that's what they used to announce the Jubilee, or "Jobel". Ben, I appreciate that -- yeah, I do my homework. Greg, That is the "problem" with the Jubilee, there is no horn. Yes there is a pretty picture with PWK and a wood horned Jubilee. That was not a satisfactory sonic match. There is a horn, in fact, there are at least two. The "problem" with the wood horn was not that it was "not a satisfactory sonic match", but that the wood was prone to cracking (probably from being mechanically coupled to the bass bin). The Jubilee is an acoustically complete product, network and all. The only thing never finished were details related to asthetics. The one that DD and Tony heard while undoubtably good sounding, Does not meet the requirements for a two way with flat response out to 20KHz. At this point, I'm not aware of any compression driver/horn combination in a two-way that goes flat to 20kHz without equalization. Also, there is no indication, or evidence to support the idea that this was one of the design goals for the Jubilee. So, your "requirement" doesn't exist. Also, the Klipschorn, itself a three-way -- doesn't offer response out to 20kHz. So, it's not likely that this was something PK and Delgado was pursuing. The Jubilee has a cut-off higher than a Khorn ie; less bass. The Klipschorn has a 50Hz horn, and the Jubilee has a 38Hz horn. Looking at the plots, it's obvious that it doesn't have "less bass", even though it has a higher cut off. Pwk spent his life seeking the Holy Grail of a two way horn loaded speaker flat from 30-18KHz, his designs are three way for a reason. No, his design goal was to match the performance of the Klipschorn in a two-way -- which he apparently accomplished. "As far back as 1986, Klipsch had wanted to return the system to its original two-way design. His contention was that by getting the Klipschorn's low frequency unit up to 600Hz, one of the large compression drivers could be used to do the rest." '"What Paul Klipsch said to me on Jan 29, 1999 ... "Bill, If I could ever invent a full bass horn, 30 to 1000, and cross over there and go to 17,000 CPS, that would be the key -- all the while holding at 100dB+ 1 Watt 3 feet and staying +/-3dB." I said, how about 900 and 9000? He said, "better to do a two way..." I said, tweeter only needs 1 octave. He said, "Hell, I'm 95...I cannot hear above 2000 anymore." As much as I like Dean and his antics, he is no PWK. I'm glad you like me Rick, and you're right, I'm no PWK. So, since I don't have the head, I have to use my feet -- lot's of phone calls. Who have you talked too? As far as my antics, well -- kiss my butt. I prefer to look at it as hands on experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 ---------------- On 3/18/2005 5:31:03 PM hwatkins wrote: Quia Jobel est, sanctus erit vobis, agri comedetis fructum. ---------------- No search needed if I get your meaning. Must not be any orthodox or native language jews around here.... ---------------- That's Latin, not Hebrew. Am I missing something? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 LOL, no you aren't missing anything, THAT's definitely Latin, but "Jobel" is a Hebrew word. "The ultimate derivation of the word jubilee is disputed, but it is most probable that the Hebrew word jobel, to which it is traced, meant "a ram's horn", and that from this instrument, used in proclaiming the celebration, a certain idea of rejoicing was derived. Further, passing through the Greek iobelaios, or iobelos, the word became confused with the Latin jubilo, which means "to shout", and has given us the forms jubilatio and jubilaeum, now adopted in most European languages." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dean, It looks like you will need a good RTA system to confirm that your frequency response is where you want it. Too bad that you do not have quiet room to test in. Best of luck in your quest. Many on the forum will wish you well and hope that you succeed. Just don't bet the farm on the quest. Most of the fun is in the quest itself. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 "Just don't bet the farm on the quest. Most of the fun is in the quest itself." Ha! Someone finally gets it!! Most of the joy comes with the journey, not the destination. This is a hobby for cry'in out loud, so get to hobbying everyone. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 As Paul Klipsch said to me a long long time ago. His horn is a tweekers dream. At that time you could buy the bass bin & top housing without any drivers or woofers. (I did) Then apply my own dumb theorys as to out guess the ol man. I see nothing wrong with Dean following his dream down this long path into oblivion. Looking back at my mistakes some good came of it. I would suggest Dean take the long conservative road. Start at the top first. Purchess the B&C HF driver first. Make the wood TrackTrix HF horn. apply to present bass bin. Apply proper Xover. This is one element Delgato & Klipsch didnt get into other what crossover point used. Or even if xover was EQ,ed. If that works...Than the NEW bass bin could be obtained. Ive mentioned doing this over a year ago. At $3000. pr for the Jubilee bass bin. That cheaper than A years tank of gas. But remember the woofers used were only a temperary solution in their design. The PRO version are ruggedized for heavy cinema abuse. Your in a dark tweek swapping area here. Some people are pointing to a Pioneer woofer in Parts Express. Without validity. But its a tweekers dream. AND A COSTLY ONE. I was offered a chance to pick up a new pair of the Pro Jubilee bass bins ths year. I thought better of it. It will be awhile before I get my strength back & tackle that progect. But Im confident Dean can tackle a project of that magnetude as well as others on this forum. Let the Klipsch co. sit back & watch the sawdust fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 It's a disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 dean check out this guy´s horns http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5760328502&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT also do not forget earl gedes http://www.gedlee.com regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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