Kriton Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 OK, wait a second...as I see it you are making an unfair comparison... The heritage line and the RF line are two completely different concepts, two completely different historical precedents, and not something that can make an easy comparison, IMVHO... I own a pair of peerless 80's Cornwall II's (not I's, not veritcal horns, nada), and they are a sheer joy to listen to, and I can't really explain why...they are refined and fluid with good music, and remorselessly brutal to bad or mediocre recordings...playing most modern rock and roll (or what passes for it these days) is painful, for they will pick-up every sharp or flat, every nuance, good or bad...and live recordings? Forget it, unless the musician is truly a master, these things will spit it out like it was, crap and all...sometimes it will sound marvelous, sometimes, like well crap...I can't even imagine what a K-Horn would sound like...I think the first time I do, I am dead...or divorced... That being said, I have experienced etheral moments with orchestral and classial music with my Corns , literally magical...nay, spiritual experiences...Ya'll that have them, dig up some clips of a guy named Eric Whitacre, or Arvo Part and play the stuff real loud, and you will see what I mean, the dissonances and ultimate resolutions are sublimely painful... HOWEVER, the RF-7's that I own play rock like beasts, hard hitting, punchy, and imminently listenable; it isn't that they cover the mistakes, or that they aren't as brutal in the honesty of the music they produce, but they are to my ears less warm sounding, more edgy and less ... hell, I don't know, ... fluid, more crystalline perhaps...than the older speakers...more of a flat response, maybe? Difference between say, polished wood and stainless steel...both beautiful and differrent at the same time. Perfect for movie soundtracks, perfect for most music, but to my ears, they are not super complimentary to solo artists (classical) work... Let me put it this way, if I wanted a speaker that was easily listenable, could put anything on it and it would just sound fantastic...it would be the Corns. If I wanted to actually listen to the music, listen critically to chordal progessions, motif, closeness of the chords between members fo the band or chorus, guitar fingering, bowing, the fat guy in the front row coughing, or just a wall of highly defined motor driven- electric arena rock sound, then the RF-7 would be the speaker hands down...does any of that make sense? This is kind of like trying to compare the body work on say an old stunning Bugatti, with sinfully velvet lines that just scream to be touched, and a brand new stealthy looking Lamborghini that looks like a secret precision razor-edged fighter aircraft, completely different - but exotic masterpieces both. Maybe I need to shut up now. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Wave,while I share some of your enthusiasm for the 7s'try to remember that what you and I may prefer is not universal.My brother had some Cornwalls that sounded pretty good back in the day,I'm 44.We're all kinda brothers(or sisters) in Klipsch.Its great that you love the 7s and you proclaim it to the world,just keep in mind many love their Klipsch of a different color just as much as us.There is no right or wrong in Klipsch,only beautiful music on the type of your choice.Enjoy your 7s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 "Heh.. could it be because you and I still have most of our hearing left? Maybe most of the "heritage users/owners" are so old that they can't hear how much better the RF7's sound... :)" i've seen better fights, at the rest home, out of 82 year old women "you can't scratch my cadillac b!tch"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 It's a very good thing that Klipsch does when it makes a wide range of high sensitivity horn speakers. There is a speaker for most tastes that like horns, to each his/her own. I love the versatility of my RF-7s. They are excellent with a wide range of music in addition to movies. The two way design has less crossover distortion. Bass is the most realistic that I have ever heard. How many speakers can immage cannon shots as well as reproduce the timbre of different types of drums? IMO the RF-7 is a very different speaker than the Heritage line in several important ways. First, there is about a 5 decibel difference in sensitivity. Second, the RF-7s have an impedance curve that is more difficult to drive well. Klipschorns are true 8 ohm speakers in most of the critical bass frequencies per PWK. The RF-7s are under 4 ohms much of the time in the bass frequencies as a result of running two woofers in parallel. Hence the RF-7s need for amplification is somewhat different. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 3:05:08 PM WaveMan wrote: I'm sure I'll get blasted by "old-school" Klipsch lovers but.... Is it just me, or are the RF7's - the best-sounding speakers Klipsch has ever made? Before you blast - keep in mind, that I've owned and/or listened to the following models: Forte Forte II Chorus II Kornerhorns... All of those speakers rock - but none have been able to match the sonic clarity and imaging of the RF7's IMO.. ---------------- Geez! You are NOT supposed to say that to a Heritage owner. We all know the Heritage system is for old guys who can't hear. BUT, we NEVER, EVER tell them that. Those who can still hear buy the RF-7 and enjoy them. Please don't tell any Heritage owners that the speakers they have are second best to the RF-7s, they may have heart palpations, get short of breath, and maybe even blow a gasket. Be nice, not smug, in knowing you own better speakers. Tell them, "Gee those Khorn Cornball, er, uh, I mean Cornwall LaBelles sound pretty good". To all Heritage onwers: We only jest out of love! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveMan Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 Geez! You are NOT supposed to say that to a Heritage owner. We all know the Heritage system is for old guys who can't hear. BUT, we NEVER, EVER tell them that. Those who can still hear buy the RF-7 and enjoy them. Please don't tell any Heritage owners that the speakers they have are second best to the RF-7s, they may have heart palpations, get short of breath, and maybe even blow a gasket. Be nice, not smug, in knowing you own better speakers. Tell them, "Gee those Khorn Cornball, er, uh, I mean Cornwall LaBelles sound pretty good". To all Heritage onwers: We only jest out of love! ---------------- LOL - Oops, my bad..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I have owned KLF30s and now have Khorns. Both are great speakers. I cannot/will not fault the 30s except to say that the 30s were great sounding speakers but my Khorns simply disappear when the music starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Soundstage and imaging are two totally different things. Not even hearing either one. I would say imaging would go to the rf-7, but sounstage would go to the Khorn. I have sf-2 that image better than heresy II's, but the Heresy II's have a better soundstage. The sf-2 with good amplification will image quite well. You will "almost" always get better imaging with a slimmer cab design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdave Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I feel like my F-2s are crap... haha. Just funny listening to everyone talk about their amazing speakers and the speakers that they put a close second like they have so many faults... really puts things into perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveMan Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 12:55:05 AM wheelman wrote: Soundstage and imaging are two totally different things. Not even hearing either one. I would say imaging would go to the rf-7, but sounstage would go to the Khorn. I have sf-2 that image better than heresy II's, but the Heresy II's have a better soundstage. The sf-2 with good amplification will image quite well. You will "almost" always get better imaging with a slimmer cab design. ---------------- Actually - they really aren't that separate: Imaging Imaging describes the extent to which a stereo system reproduces the location of instruments and vocalists as they were positioned during recording and mixing. (See also soundstage below). Optimum imaging creates a listening experience that seems natural and lifelike. The key to attaining the best possible imaging is to have equal (or as close to equal as possible), unobstructed path lengths between your tweeters and your ears. The ability to mount your tweeter separately, as with components, or in an angled mount, as with some full-range speakers, can improve imaging. Soundstage The soundstage refers to your sense of width, depth and height when you listen to music just as you would sense the placements of different instruments in a live concert setting. Individual vocal and instrumental "images" make up your stereo system's soundstage. See also "imaging" above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 11:42:02 AM kingdave wrote: I feel like my F-2s are crap... haha. Just funny listening to everyone talk about their amazing speakers and the speakers that they put a close second like they have so many faults... really puts things into perspective. ---------------- KingDave, the Synergy series (F-2) are the best buy of the year. You get 90% of the RF series for much less money. They are simply the best bang for buck speakers Klipsch makes. Hmmm.... another Best Buy item. Seems like a marriage made in heaven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveMan Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 6:02:03 PM Spkrdctr wrote: ---------------- On 7/8/2005 11:42:02 AM kingdave wrote: I feel like my F-2s are crap... haha. Just funny listening to everyone talk about their amazing speakers and the speakers that they put a close second like they have so many faults... really puts things into perspective. ---------------- KingDave, the Synergy series (F-2) are the best buy of the year. You get 90% of the RF series for much less money. They are simply the best bang for buck speakers Klipsch makes. Hmmm.... another Best Buy item. Seems like a marriage made in heaven! ---------------- I don't think the F-series comes anywhere close to the sound-quality of the RF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:33:15 PM johnyholiday wrote: (I'm 34 now).lmao, oh goodnes i can't breath ,lmao ---------------- You 2 channel guys crack me up. I heard the THX set up at the Klipsch pilgrimage. I wouldn't trade my Reference HT for what I heard at the same price point. Considering I paid at least half as much for my system (and I have 2 more speakers;-), I am EXTREMELY happy with my purchase. That being said, the upstairs demo (at the Pilgrimage}using the 3 LaScallas up front with the 2 THX subs----WOW! I am considering building a larger Theater Room and using upper end Heritage, because it DID sound slightly better than what I have. From my understanding the RF-7 was designed mainly for Home Theater use with 3 other speakers and a sub. I am glad to hear a 2 channel aficionado {edit: Oops I thought this was a 2 channel post} feel they stack up to the Klipschorn for stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 8:33:47 PM tkdamerica wrote: That being said, the upstairs demo (at the Pilgrimage}using the 3 LaScallas up front with the 2 THX subs----WOW! I am considering building a larger Theater Room and using upper end Heritage, because it DID sound slightly better than what I have. ---------------- That did sound good didn't it? If I had the room for something like that, I would put something like that in myself. However, I'll fully admit that my own Ref-7 setup sounds damn good in my room. After that trip, and hearing all that gear, it just made me appreciate just how good my own setup all that much more. But, I'll admit some of these "If it is not Heritage, it is not Klipsch" types do get annoying on here. I think the RF-7s can hang very nicely with, and my own listening experience seems to bear this out, with the upper Heritage. But, at some $7,500/pair or so, I sure as hell hope that a pair of Khorns will sound better than a pair of $2,200 RF-7s. Unfortunatly, not all of us have the space, nor two good corners, to put something like Khorns, along with some LaScalas and/or Belle Klipsch speakers. Unless things change (i.e., I get lucky with the super-lotto), I am sticking with my Ref-7 setup for a very long time, as I am very satisfied with the performance I get out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 My Heritage may be "innfacturate-sounding", but I would not trade them for anything else. Even for HT, I really prefer the mids produced by a horn rather than a direct radiator. BTW, the F2 speakers that we heard at the Pilgrimage mixer were very impressive and sounded better than many non-Klipsch speakers selling for 3 times the price (IMO of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 RF-7s all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shmoe Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I'm 34, passed a hearing test not too long ago (with flying colors) lol and IMO... I prefer my KLF-30's over the RF-7's, the midrange is smoother. If buying today, I probably would go with the 7's but I'm quite pleased with the 30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Hey skonopa and Seadog It was great meeting you guys at the Pilgrimage! Jacksonbart, I was hoping you would have shown up. Insofar as Joe's comment. I wish I had a pair of KLF-30's to audition. I have a pair of KLF-20's that I use with a KLF C-7. I have to wonder how the perceived 3 way design of the anticipated "premier line" would compare? That legend set-up is awfully nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I think the room plays a big effect on the sound...and the RF7 are not as critical to room design and treatment as a khorn.... IMO....hehehehe but what do I know.... nothing...hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveMan Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 8:33:47 PM tkdamerica wrote: ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:33:15 PM johnyholiday wrote: (I'm 34 now).lmao, oh goodnes i can't breath ,lmao ---------------- You 2 channel guys crack me up. I heard the THX set up at the Klipsch pilgrimage. I wouldn't trade my Reference HT for what I heard at the same price point. Considering I paid at least half as much for my system (and I have 2 more speakers;-), I am EXTREMELY happy with my purchase. That being said, the upstairs demo (at the Pilgrimage}using the 3 LaScallas up front with the 2 THX subs----WOW! I am considering building a larger Theater Room and using upper end Heritage, because it DID sound slightly better than what I have. From my understanding the RF-7 was designed mainly for Home Theater use with 3 other speakers and a sub. I am glad to hear a 2 channel aficionado {edit: Oops I thought this was a 2 channel post} feel they stack up to the Klipschorn for stereo. ---------------- I never claimed to be a "2-channel guy" as I do own a 5.1 setup which conists of 2 RF7s, 1 RC7, 2 RS7s and one RSW-15.... However, I will but up the RF7s in 2-channel audio listening against any other Klipsch-made speaker... The transperency, linearity, sonic clarity, imaging and soundstage is far superior to any other Klipsch product... The mids are far warmer than anything a horn mid can make.... IMO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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