Klipsch-daddy Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Are graphic eq's worth the money? Can they make your setup sound that much better?? ------------------ My HTS: MAINS: KSB 3.1 CENTER: KSC-C1 REAR: Looking for some SUB: KSW-12 TV: TOSHIBA THEATER VIEW 50" RECEIVER:KENWOOD VR-4080B DVD: SONY S-360 DVD PLAYER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 KD-- EQ's can very easily get out of hand. Meaning you can wind up putting too much signal through your amp and make it start clipping the sign wave. Since Klipsch speakers are generally very sensitive, they won't put up with that very long and begin to blow drivers, starting with the tweeters (the weakest link in the chain). Do I use one? Yes. With all settings above 1000Hz set to absolute neutral, no boost, no cut. Below 1000Hz it is boosted only 2db or so. This is because my room is very bass absorbant. If you do decide to go this route, get the cleanest signal to noise ratio (s/n) you can buy. The model I list below is greater than 90db though I've read other places that it was around 124db . That's very high and the higher the better. The "Total Harmonic Distortion" is .005% which is cleaner than everything I own except for the DVD/CD player. It ran me about $400 at a local recording studio supply shop. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Monster Power HTS-5000 Power Conditioner/Surge Protector Original 12ga. Monster Cable Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 KD, tblasings eq and analyzer are far better than most available at "popular prices". I would recommend a graphic equalizer only if the filter bands are no more than one-third octave wide below about 200hz. And better still would be a parametric eq that lets you control center frequency, bandwidth or "Q", and amount of boost or cut. The typical ten-band graphic eq is just too limited in precision to be really useful where it is most needed -- the bass. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 A good graphic equalizer can help smooth out the frequency response at your listening location. Room acoustics result in differences in response from factory speces for certain frequencies at certain locations. These differences can sometimes be heard as dramatic holes or peaks in response at those frequencies. They vary depending on where you are in the room. So the graphic equalizer can only fix problems at one location. As suggested previously, 1/3 db per step or less to be useful. You will also need the gear to measure frequency response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Eq's of all type are simply awsome :-) Seriously though I used to use (I still have it) a graphic eq but I found that as I upgraded my equipment I don't need it anymore. I miss the spectrum display I may hook it up just for that :-). SVS Woofer sells decent band and parametric eq's on thier site. Laters, ------------------ FOR SALE OR TRADE COMPLETE R*3 SYSTEM FOR 3 HERESY'S Main System - Cornwalls (L/R main) RC-3 RS-3's (white) SVS 20-39CS Harman Kardon AVR 510 Hafler P505 (running sub) HT Room now X10 Controlled ProMedia 4.2 v400 for PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 I 've tried the Audio Control unit (at the low) end and found that it did smooth out the sound at the time, but also seemed to slow down the music and made the SS amp I had at the time seem like it was "puffing", slow somehow and sluggish, with less immediacy to the sound, I am interested in bi-amping with an active cross-over ... ------------------ horns & subs; lights out & tubes glowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 Leave EQ up to the Musicians and Recording Engineers. Turn every tone control to Zero and CRANK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Klipsch-daddy: Are graphic eq's worth the money? Can they make your setup sound that much better?? I am a lurker on this forum & have not posted much. Let me throw out my 2 cents worth of opinion. I am not an audiophile but I am a music lover. I do not belong to the audiophile school of thought that all tone controls or equalizers are evil. And that using tone controls or equalizers is doing nothing but adding distortion & phase problems. I use an Alesis M-EQ 230 1/3 octave equalizer-30 bands per channel, + 12 or -12 db of boost or cut. Dynamic range 107 db, THD<0.005%. This equalizer has audio power muting to protect your gear from on/off transients, in/out bypass switch on both channels to compare original signal to EQ'd sound, LED signal lights for EQ in, clip indicator, signal present & power, master channel gain fader of + or - 12 db. This equalizer is pro music gear but has rca jacks along with 1/4" inputs. I use this equalizer with an all Mcintosh solid state system-MC 7150 power amp(150 watts per channel), C 38 preamp, MCD 7009 cd player & Pioneer Elite PD 65 cd player, MR 80 tuner, Nakamichi 480 cassette deck, don't have my turntable hooked up right now. Driving 2 pair of Cornwalls-a 1977 pair of cherry stained birch & a 1983 pair of oiled walnut in a room 24'L x 19'W x 8'H. The Cornwalls are 17' apart on each long wall. I personally prefer the use of tone controls & equalizers. But I realize not everyone does, so to each his own on whether to use them. The Alesis eq retails for $299 but can be purchased cheaper off the internet. Rane also makes good equalizers but they run higher in cost- the Rane ME 60 1/3 octave eq retails at $699 & the Rane Mojo MQ 302 retails at $429. Both of these are 30 bands per channel. The only thing I do not care for about the Alesis eq is the adjustment sliders per band are small. The tone controls & eq can make crappy sounding recordings much more tolerable with judiciuos use. Room acoustic problems can be fixed also. The only way to find out if you like an equalizer is to try one out in your system. Try and find a store with a liberal return policy so you can try an eq in your system. If you don't like it, then return it for a refund. ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Ok... I wasn't going to do it but I guess I am because I'm putting up a batch of my "vintage" audio equipment for auction on Ebay. I have a few items that are in absolutely PERFECT condition that I'm selling because quite simply, I was laid off on September 14th and I'm clearing out all kinds of stuff that I haven't used in years. Odd as it seems, I haven't been using this equipment and it's all packed very carefully in the original boxes with all the original manuals and accessories. I'm a fanatic about keeping my audio gear boxes and manuals. Anyway, since you're all talking about graphic EQ's, here's a link to the one I'm auctioning off. Heck, it's only at $25.00 now! AIIIEEEE. Check the url for pics and specifications. It's a great unit. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1286115624 Keep a watch on my other auctions as I'm putting up a Nakamichi 482 3 Descreet head Cassette deck as well as my Yamaha C-50 Natural Sound Control Amp (Preamp) which had ALL the relays upgraded! I've been considering auctioning off my Hafler D-200 power amp but I think I'm going to hook it up to power my Cornwalls instead of the Sony DB1070 amps. I'm also going to be putting up my Pioneer VSX-9500S A/V receiver and possibly some other gear. If you want me to update you to what I'm auctioning off, email me and I'll put you on a list. ------------------ Bob Lindabury SPEAKERS Fronts: Cornwalls (2) Center: KLF-C7 (1) Rears: RS-3's (2) Sub: AudioSource SW-15 Rear Center: Umm...any suggestions? AMP: Sony STR-DB1070 6.1 MISC: Hafler DH-200 Amp;Yamaha C-50 Pre-Amp; Nakamichi 482 Cassette Deck; Technics SL-1410MK2 Turntable; Sony DVP-S360 DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Raven, Funny this EQ should come up . This is the exact model that started this whole spending spree last February!! I moved my rig from my parents' house to my girlfriend's place and found that after being dormant (the whole rig) for three years the EQ went south on me. O.K.--get another one, right? Not so easy to find one in the $150 range after all. So I decided to step up with the dbx. Everything just snowballed from there and $14,000+ later it's getting closer to being somewhat complete. Just have to get the FF/RR fixed on the tape deck, a good cleaning and aligning wouldn't hurt either. Then a new stylus for the venerable Sure V15. Gee, only about $500 to go!! Ooopps...sorry, that must have sounded insensitive with your current position. What I did for a friend of mine when times were tough when he had to sell his 86' Shelby Charger Turbo (1 of 287 in this color combo) to pay for the taxes on a recently inherited house is this. I bought the car from him and stored is at my house. When things got better I sold it back to him after I detailed it and filled up the tank. I'm not saying this to seek admiration but maybe you could do the same thing with a friend near you. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Monster Power HTS-5000 Power Conditioner/Surge Protector Original 12ga. Monster Cable Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 AAAAAAHHHHHHH Equalizers, EW! The great tweeter killer! Klipsch speakers dont need them, maybe in some cases to drop the bass a bit, but not for use, as in higher settings on the tweeter and the mids! My 2nd set of cornwalls suffered tweeter loss due to a dam equalizer! Had to get new tweeters 3 days after buying them! Ill never use one again! Just my honest thought! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Phare Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 Raven- I was off work for the last few weeks do to a state employees strike which forced our company to close. I also went heading to e- bay for some extra $$. I have an old JBL amp up, a set of Altec drivers and some other goods. All of the gear has been pretty much in storage over the past few years and have intended to put it up on e- bay but never have until now. As far as eq's go, they are good if used right ( for smoothing out the enviroment as posted above ) or they can be really bad if used wrong. I have a real time analyzer that I use to set up stereo systems and they have to be used if you introduce a eq into you system or you risk damage to your gear. ------------------ Just who is Dylan's Jokerman anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 My question, and I appreciate what you have said JimC, I traded in my Kenwood 6 disk tray and dual casette, (thought my sound sucked)for a Pioneer CT650W dual tape and Pioneer GR777 EQ. Still love the sound I created from 92 cd's(went Adcom GCD575 then and through a Pioneer VSX-9900S A\V Receiver biamped with Adcoms GFA585LE and GFA-545). All through Khorns and Hersey II's. I found the sound more dynamic than direct, more balancing so to speak..... do you not think so...I recorded many lp's to direct tape but found it lacking(depth), the eq gave you the opportunity to eq that...not an Engineer, but a Listener.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 LonestarBlues you are an audiophile. I am an audiophile and I dont say EQ are stanic,a good quality(transparent)EQ can help get the most ot of your sound system if used with care and reserve. Most abuse EQ's,they will end up with a SMILE curve on the EQ!This is clear abuse and these users dont know how to use the EQ.This often ends as some here pointed out with damaged tweeters and other drivers.The SMILE curve should almost never be used.The EQ is here to even out the response,to make the output "flat".Not bassy and ear piercing strident. Audio Control makes some good quality EQ's,the DIVA is their best yet.The DIVA is a true audiophile EQ,so transparent and will even convince die hard audiophiles.Z Systems and Accuphase also make audiophile EQ's,these improve a system.Since no room is perfect a great quality EQ can boost the performance(not only BASS and TREBLE). EQ's were bastardized by the boom boxes,there the EQ has one function.Blow bass out of proportion and cut the midrange.The limited highs must scream to sound good. A real EQ improves the sound. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 thanks Ear, interesting reading from a laymans thought idea...balance is the sheer Divider of Power...so to speak on top of wattage..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 EQs are a mixed blessing.Room problems (dips from floor-bounce, peaks from floor-to-ceiling height)are in the time domain and as such no eq can fix them.Dips in the speaker frequency response from crossover network phase funnies cannot be fixed either.Recordings can't be fixed either because most of the 'sweetening' was done on just a few tracks and the eq will affect all the tracks equally.All that said and done I still have a pair of 1/3 oct mono pro sound EQs.The best are White, UREI, Altec passive units.Newer designs use over 60 cheap op-amps.I have a pair of DuKane semi-passive units.They have a single-ended class A impedance buffer driving all the LCR filters.The filters are summed via a single op-amp.Op-amp in this context does not mean an IC.An op-amp may be made with tubes or discrete transistors.I find this to be a good compromise.The passive units are cut only.I cannot listen to the 60 op-amp variety (Alesis, Rane, DBX, etc).My kind can be found for cheap because of the size.My two DuKane are 17.5" tall.A pair of Altec or UREI would be 10.5" and a pair of White 7".Alesis provides a pair of tweezers to adust the sliders on their 1.75" model(you think I'm kidding don't you?).My DuKanes also have switches on each individual filter.You need three filters?You get three filters.On all the newer ones you get 60 op-amps hissing and phasing away even if you only need to move one slider.I have quiet, sealed, rotary pots with over 1" finger clearance to the next neighbor.An Alesis has 1/4" spacing (remember the tweezers?)short throw open sliders.They get dirty and/or break off easily.Cost you $150 for a new POS or $300 for a good used pair of pro units.You decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.