Another Worthwhile Upgrade....REALLY Worthwhile!

[garymd]

Yesterday I replaced my pair of Dean's auricapped "A" networks in my Khorns with his latest ESN's and I'm absolutely floored! I told him I wanted to finally upgrade my original Cornwall crossovers and he convinced me to do the Khorns again and modify the 2 year old A's from the Khorns for use in the Corns.

This was not an insignificant upgrade my friends. I've been listening almost non-stop tonight. I thought I was detailed-out. WRONG! I thought I was bassed-out. WRONG! These are amazing networks people. I've made some significant gear changes that didn't have as much impact and I've only tried one setting so far. It may turn out to be the setting I like best but I'm really shocked. Just amazing. Did I say they are AMAZING? They are amazing. I've listened to every type of music I own which is quite a variety. It's a major improvement to every album I've played so far.

Thanks Dean ol' buddy.[] I HIGHLY recommend these to ANYONE with anything less. My A's were only a couple years old. They don't come close and I thought THEY sounded great. WOW!!!

[tillmbil]

Uh, shouldn't you be sleeping about now? The changes, tweaks and improvements in this hobby just never end. Gary, did you say you worked in a bank [] How's about an unsecured loan?

[JJkizak]

Yeah. Whats' an ESN? Dean can you elaborate and will it work on older K-horns?

JJK

[hwatkins]

I could be mistaken, but I believe ESN stands for Extreme Slope Network - the logic is thus - if you can filter for more dramatic db roll off near your crossover frequency (for each speaker) you have less competition on each side of the Xover frequency with disparate speakers trying to creat the same sound.

In my experience it does create a very nice improvement, but it can be a bear to get right and is best done after you have measurements of your existing config.

Dean or Al or Bob - please jump in here before my bad information gets overutilized (these folks can answer much better than I).

[Speedball]

Thanks for the tip......maybe he will come up with something brand new for the 7's that will make a difference as big as the first upgrade.

[Deang]

Nope, Gary's new networks are the Super AA -- a constant impedance filter with a first order woofer, first order squawker bandpass, and a slightly modified AA tweeter filter. Henry is right, 'ESN' stands for Extreme Slope Network, and is only available from our friends over at ALK Engineering.

[joshnich]

Ditto on everything Gary said. I too have the Dean super AAs and they are FANTASTIC. A big imporovement over stock. I coldnt believe that my speakers could sound better and they did - by a long shot!

Josh

[NOSValves]

Mark,

I agree between Al and Dean you couldn't get a imagination out of them combined. Dean's network is not a Super AA it is a ALK Jr.

Gary,

I love saying this................. I TOLD YOU SO!

Craig

[Audible Nectar]

LMAO at Mark......

As a fan of Monty Python, I eagerly await the release of

"THE PENULTIMATE AA"[]

[Deang]

Mark, LOL, but wait -- it gets worse!

You have a set of 'Super A's' which used to be called the 'DHAxover'. It's the same as the Super AA except it has a first order tweeter filter (like the Klipsh stock Type A) instead of a third order tweeter filter like the Super AA. Of course there is also a Super B for the Cornwall which naturally is derived from the Type B for the Cornwall.

Hey, don't blame me, I wanted to use more letters in the alphabet but Al thought I might just confuse everyone. I argued that everyone was so confused anyway that it didn't make any difference! Now, if you REALLY want a headache go to Al's website and check out what you end up with when Al and me start spending a few hours on the phone together. I come up with an interesting idea, and then after Al fixes my kluge you end up with a fairly cool implementation. Of course this all gets Al thinking, and before you know it you end up with a whole boatload of cool implementations!

[JJkizak]

Dean:

OK. Let's get down to basics. Will they work in my 65's? What is the cost? I don't care what the letters are. Can I get a trade -in on the "A's"? Can the "A's" be modified? Thanks.

JJK

[garymd]

Call them what you want. I'm not very technical and they didn't come with a manual. I thought they were similiar to the ESNs but what do I know!

Hey Craig........Shut up will ya? I never mentioned what happened when the VRDs were shipped!LOL!!![]

[garymd]

Mark,

At least you know what yours are called.

See, when Dean would try to explain, in technical terms, how these crossovers work, I would begin thinking about the shopping I have left, what's for dinner, world hunger, etc.[] I know he mentioned ESNs in there somewhere. Probably just in comparison.

Give Dean another week and mine will be out of date.

[jt1stcav]

Man, I'm still confused as to what network to use to replace my original '79 Cornwall's crossovers. Hell, I don't even know what's in my Cornwalls now, or who even builds new Cornwall networks...Al or Dean.

Yes, I AM dazed and confused...[:^)]

Gary, glad you're happier then a pig in mud...enjoy your NEW sound![]

[NOSValves]

Call them what you want. I'm not very technical and they didn't come with a manual. I thought they were similiar to the ESNs but what do I know!

Hey Craig........Shut up will ya? I never mentioned what happened when the VRDs were shipped!LOL!!![]

Go right ahead you dog!! After all it was pretty funny even though I tried my hardest to ignore it.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Ok, so I've been listening to my new Modified AA, and thus far after just a few selctions, I am liking it better than the Super A. A nicer balance overall. Both were vastly more clear and less muddled/crowded than the original AB, so that's not even worth mentioning. But the Super A tweeter seemed a bit much to me, and this Modified AA feel much smoother up and down the range - the Belles are so completely lucid now I'm hard pressed to imagine them getting better, but I am going for the Trachorn Mod and the Beyma or JBL tweeter - so, we'll see. Very listenable now. md I still want what Gray's got though---

I know a way the bells could get much better[]

[Deang]

The modified AA's that you are currently using share the same tweeter filter as the Super AA (what Gary, Craig, etc. are using). What that filter doesn't have is a bandpass for the squawker to roll off its output -- what you are hearing right now is a horn being run full out until it runs out of gas on its own -- not necessarily a bad thing at all as long as you keep the power levels sane. That network also moves between 6 and 30+ ohms, and I personally think that might only be an issue with no feedback Triode type amplifiers that tend to track impedance. Like I told you on the phone, the network you currently have loaded is identical to the one I'm using right now with my TEAC Tripath amplifier, and I'm getting some very good sound from it as well.

Ironically, the network you just unloaded uses the squawker section of the Super AA, and if you combine that squawker section with the tweeter section of the one you are running right now you have a Super AA! Bob Crites told me the tweeter filter on the first network would be too hot for most people but since I was only planning on selling it to those who specifically asked for a hot tweeter, or those who listen using low power in intimate settings I thought it might work out well for some -- of which I thought you might be one.

Wait till you all see what I'm almost done building -- you will surely have me institutionalized.

Jim, I build two networks for the original Cornwall -- a network similiar to the Super AA and the Cornwall ALK. You can see a picture of the Cornwall network in my audiogon ad: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1138404437 With that filter you could move your Cornwalls back into your livingroom.

[mark1101]

Gary,

This is great news. My wife bought me a pair for X-Mas and they arrived yesterday she said. She promptly scarfed up the box and wrapped them up. I never saw the box. I don't even know which one it is under the tree. So I have to wait to hear them.

JW Culinson is coming over with his various DIY nets and we are going to try out several models.

I have been waiting quite a while to experiment with all of this. I really can't wait.

Glad yours sound so good.[]

[sunburnwilly]

I woke up this morning and what did I see ? OMG , it's a package from DeanG !!! Still trips me out to get mail on Sunday . []

[Erukian]

I'm curious, why not use 4th order crossovers?

IIRC, their expensive, but the best sounding because they keep everythin in phase while having a very smooth xover. But they do drain what, -3dB out of your output? I'm wondering why use the extreme slope over a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley filter.

i'm not trying to bash deans design, but won't you get some really obvious modulation distortion from the tweeters resonance? Also, wouldn't having a first order xover make everything out of phase? so if your not in the "sweet spot" with each speaker equal distance from your ears, it'll sound lopsided and not evenly covered?

-Joe