Peach tube rolling? Recommendations? Anyone?

[BS Button]

And what's another nomenclature or name for the 12x4?

[BS Button]

Mark,

Not that I need one, but I can't seem to locate a 12X4. Is there another name for it?

Thanks for the remainder of your response.

BS

[Gilbert]

Mark,

Not that I need one, but I can't seem to locate a 12X4. Is there another name for it?

Thanks for the remainder of your response.

BS

There's a guy on ebay with a 5 pack. I know because I was just scoping it out day before yesterday. The price was $1.95 plus shipping. I have an extra one if you get desperate, but like I said, there was a guy with a 5 pack of nos nib RCA 12X4.

Oh, almost forgot.....if your peach is anything like the BB, try a CCa (in either a telef., seimens or valvo), this will replace the 6DJ8. A Telef. or Seimens ECC801s (E81CC) is also a sweet treat (put'em in the 12AT7 sockets).

[Z4!]

This thread may be of some value:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/679673/ShowPost.aspx

[Marvel]

These guys are in Memphis. I would call to make sure they actually had one in stock.

http://store.tubedepot.com/nos-12x4.html

[mark1101]

After a lot of tube rolling in my Peach I have found that a cost effective, great sounding all around tube is the Amperex Bugle Boy. There are better, but tubes like the pinchwaist and Cca cost a lot more.

It all depends on how much you want to spend.

[jon_010101]

Regarding the 12X4, Angela electronics has tons for sale on eBay... I picked up four RCA in boxes for $10 total, just so I'd have some backups. I tried a new-in-box Amperex HZ81 / 12X4 (the only substitute I am aware of) and was shocked that the sound changed dramatically. Not really for the better... just tubier. Faster-sounding but minus the bass, and more euphonic. Perhaps it was changing the plate voltage a bit?

I have tried a lot of 6DJ8 combinations ... some surprises.

For the follower stage, I usually prefer a newer construction tube, or a cheapie NOS. The stock JJ's give a darker sound, versus a brighter sound from Russian 6N23P. Right now I have some RCA/Mullard 6DJ8's in the follower stage which sound very nice, about halfway between the JJ and 6N23P. I've tried American-made GE tubes (Amperex? Sylvania?) and they are closer to the JJ's with a darker sound, but tend to be muddy or bloomy for this application. Amperex is fine, but seems like overkill; I'd rather preserve the good stuff for the gain stage...

In the triode gain stage, I have had the following observations (no particular order):

1) JJ's -- very clean with very fast top-end, but a slightly recessed midrange

2) Ei Elite -- stock tube, nice crunchy top end, slightly dark/dry sounding, but nicely detailed.

3) GE smoked-glass -- warm, pleasant, not in-your-face, natural. Sounds really nice with 6N23Ps in the follower, really boring with JJ's.

4) Amperex Holland Bugle Boy -- similar to GE, but more 3D, clear, and colorful, but arguably less natural

5) Amperex Holland PQ orange label 6DJ8 -- huge sound with gorgeous midrange, very high gain, but gets a bit fatiguing. Mine all are too noisy to use.

6) 6N23P -- clean, dry, detailed, a bit grainy, but I bet these can be really nice in the right system and they cost very little on ebay.

7) 6N1P -- bass-shy, not really a great substitute in the Peach, very clean, but kinda weird-sounding. I plan to use mine in a power amp project.

8) RCA "Holland" -- sounds suspiciously like a Bugle Boy

9) RCA "Gt. Britain" -- sounds presumably like a Mullard, next up for me to try

Honestly, I could be perfectly happy with a very basic NOS American or European tube and a pair of 6N23P's...

total cost, $10-30 ebay + shipping []

[lwhaples]

Regarding the 12X4, Angela electronics has

tons for sale on eBay... I picked up four RCA in boxes for $10 total,

just so I'd have some backups. I tried a new-in-box Amperex HZ81

/ 12X4 (the only substitute I am aware of) and was shocked that the

sound changed dramatically. Not really for the better... just

tubier. Faster-sounding but minus the bass, and more

euphonic. Perhaps it was changing the plate voltage a bit?

I have tried a lot of 6DJ8 combinations ... some surprises.

For

the follower stage, I usually prefer a newer construction tube, or a

cheapie NOS. The stock JJ's give a darker sound, versus a

brighter sound from Russian 6N23P. Right now I have some

RCA/Mullard 6DJ8's in the follower stage which sound very nice, about

halfway between the JJ and 6N23P. I've tried American-made GE

tubes (Amperex? Sylvania?) and they are closer to the JJ's with a

darker sound, but tend to be muddy or bloomy for this

application. Amperex is fine, but seems like overkill; I'd rather

preserve the good stuff for the gain stage...

In the triode gain stage, I have had the following observations (no particular order):

1) JJ's -- very clean with very fast top-end, but a slightly recessed midrange

2) Ei Elite -- stock tube, nice crunchy top end, slightly dark/dry sounding, but nicely detailed.

3)

GE smoked-glass -- warm, pleasant, not in-your-face, natural.

Sounds really nice with 6N23Ps in the follower, really boring with JJ's.

4) Amperex Holland Bugle Boy -- similar to GE, but more 3D, clear, and colorful, but arguably less natural

5)

Amperex Holland PQ orange label 6DJ8 -- huge sound with gorgeous

midrange, very high gain, but gets a bit fatiguing. Mine all are

too noisy to use.

6) 6N23P -- clean, dry, detailed, a bit

grainy, but I bet these can be really nice in the right system and they

cost very little on ebay.

7) 6N1P -- bass-shy, not really a

great substitute in the Peach, very clean, but kinda

weird-sounding. I plan to use mine in a power amp project.

8) RCA "Holland" -- sounds suspiciously like a Bugle Boy

9) RCA "Gt. Britain" -- sounds presumably like a Mullard, next up for me to try

Honestly, I could be perfectly happy with a very basic NOS American or European tube and a pair of 6N23P's...

total cost, $10-30 ebay + shipping []

Welcome to the Forum! Nice first post,lots of info. Thanks!

Larry

[meagain]

I have Amperex in my Peach but the lettering is 1/2 there. I see ECC8 on one and I assume it's ecc88, but assuming there are a few Amperex versions of this..... any idea what to look for that will tell me exactly what this is? The lettering is Orange.

[meagain]

Thanks - I've been searching around but mine look a bit different from pictures I'm seeing. I see Amperex, an oval logo, but the innerds look a bit different. And the tubes say "German" or "Germany" on them. That's what's throwing me the most.

[Coytee]

Not to hijack, but since this IS about tubes in a Peach...

Mark, I have (I belive) that bugle boy in my V1 slot. I have "your" tubes in v2 & v3. At least, if my understanding of the numbers is correct, that's the setup.

Truth be told, the high Z, low z stuff confuses me. The bugle boy is in the slot where ONLY it's used. Your stock tubes are in the slots where they are BOTH used. (I always get confused if that's hi or low)

Regardless of my confusion, here's my question:

When I switch from "single tube" mode to using BOTH tubes, one thing I can clearly hear is what I'd call a stronger signal. It might simply BE a stronger signal with two tubes pushing the signal instead of a single tube.

The bass seems to be a bit more punchy with both tubes in (left position of switch)

What this has me wondering is, when I rotate the selector to my LEFT (I think that's the low mode?), and use both tubes... the spl levels pick up a notch. If I want to put on some rock/roll and accentuate, for lack of better word, the bass... I'll put it to that mode as it seems as I said, to be a bit more punchy.

What I'm trying to figure out is, if the above is perceived accurately, what's doing what?

Is it having TWO tubes that is adding the perceived punch?, is it the different brands of tubes? Is it nothing to do with that per se', and perhaps something to do with high/low modes mating with solid state better or worse than the other mode? (remember, I'm biamped with tubes on HF and solid state on LF duty)

What I'm finding as I get more acclimated to the entire system, if I want to put on something with a heavier thwack, I'll turn it to the left mode. If I'm going to be more interested in something softer, I'll put it into the "right" mode (single tube).

[NOSValves]

Regarding the 12X4, Angela electronics has tons for sale on eBay... I picked up four RCA in boxes for $10 total, just so I'd have some backups. I tried a new-in-box Amperex HZ81 / 12X4 (the only substitute I am aware of) and was shocked that the sound changed dramatically. Not really for the better... just tubier. Faster-sounding but minus the bass, and more euphonic. Perhaps it was changing the plate voltage a bit?

I have tried a lot of 6DJ8 combinations ... some surprises.

For the follower stage, I usually prefer a newer construction tube, or a cheapie NOS. The stock JJ's give a darker sound, versus a brighter sound from Russian 6N23P. Right now I have some RCA/Mullard 6DJ8's in the follower stage which sound very nice, about halfway between the JJ and 6N23P. I've tried American-made GE tubes (Amperex? Sylvania?) and they are closer to the JJ's with a darker sound, but tend to be muddy or bloomy for this application. Amperex is fine, but seems like overkill; I'd rather preserve the good stuff for the gain stage...

In the triode gain stage, I have had the following observations (no particular order):

1) JJ's -- very clean with very fast top-end, but a slightly recessed midrange

2) Ei Elite -- stock tube, nice crunchy top end, slightly dark/dry sounding, but nicely detailed.

3) GE smoked-glass -- warm, pleasant, not in-your-face, natural. Sounds really nice with 6N23Ps in the follower, really boring with JJ's.

4) Amperex Holland Bugle Boy -- similar to GE, but more 3D, clear, and colorful, but arguably less natural

5) Amperex Holland PQ orange label 6DJ8 -- huge sound with gorgeous midrange, very high gain, but gets a bit fatiguing. Mine all are too noisy to use.

6) 6N23P -- clean, dry, detailed, a bit grainy, but I bet these can be really nice in the right system and they cost very little on ebay.

7) 6N1P -- bass-shy, not really a great substitute in the Peach, very clean, but kinda weird-sounding. I plan to use mine in a power amp project.

8) RCA "Holland" -- sounds suspiciously like a Bugle Boy

9) RCA "Gt. Britain" -- sounds presumably like a Mullard, next up for me to try

Honestly, I could be perfectly happy with a very basic NOS American or European tube and a pair of 6N23P's...

total cost, $10-30 ebay + shipping []

Yea great post!!

[mark1101]

Right now I have a JAN Phillips 6922 in V1 and it sounds great. Bugle Boys in V2 and V3. $6.00 for the JAN Phillips.

[meagain]

Coytee - I think part of your answer is here? http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/759366.aspx

I think my German Amperex doesn't exist. I've no clue what the heck this is.

Mark - do you listen in LoZ or Hi?

(Edit: Sorry, I can't post a live link with this Mac on this forum's crazy software vendor)

[frankphess]

I currently use a CCA in V1 with a matched pair of Siemens ECC83's in V2 & V3 with B&K solid state monoblocks. I think these tubes have very good detail retreieval, even at lower volumes, and the noise floor seems a little lower with these tubes than it did with some Mullard's I've tried.

Mark, I saved the information below from one of your earlier posts for my own clarification. I hope you don't mind me pasting it here again.

Here are the plusses and minuses of the two modes:

LoZ
+ drives very low impedance loads such as 5KO
+ drives cables up to 50 feet long with no ill effect
+ drives multiple amplifiers such as main and subwoofer
+ or has a slightly more extended (really slight) top end.
+ often perceived as having tighter bass control, (although that's not my personal opinion.)

HiZ
+ Is the shortest possible signal path (passive components), and least active components between input and output
+ Has the lowest distortion
+ Has the lowest noise
+ Has (IMO) the most clarity
+ Has the least interaction with the PSU
"Ideally" should be driving modest length cables (6ft) and into a load of about 47KO or more. Even better at 100kO
+ or has a very slightly less extended top end.

If you use LoZ mode, V2&V3 MUST be the same tube type because each tubes is fully specific to one channel. So, if you want the L&R to sound the same, you need the same tube type in each.

When using LoZ, you MIGHT find your level controls widely different from each other. Left at 2 o'clock and maybe Right at 10 o'clock. This is NOT A PROBLEM, nor should it be a concern. That's WHY we have those controls. It is making up for all the combined small differences between tubes, resistors, and even speaker placement. Don't fret over this - the controls are doing what they are meant to do.
md

[meagain]

Peach = 2 preamps in 1.   Yes.  I learned this tonight.     

And the importance of a good tube.   OMG!

[meagain]

OK - I need to understand a bit better....    Here's last night's story....

I had a bad KT88 power tube(s) in my VRDs so while awaiting my shipment, I investigated the tubes in the Peach.   I took them out to examine the labels, etc. to figure out what they exactly were (still unsure)....   but upone receiving my VRD tubes, put the ecc88 peach tubes back in the peach.   Turned everything on & got BAD hiss.  Really bad.  I played around and found that these tubes had numbers 1,2,3 written on the bottom.  Hmmm....   Basically I had tube no. 3 in the 1 slot.   Moved that out to v3 slot.   Moved tube no. 1 to v1 slot.  WAY less hiss.   Tried tube no. 2 in V1 slot.  Even less hiss (negligable).   OK - we'll stick to this setup.   The sound was not good.  Lacked nice bass, midrange flatter, highs harsher, etc.   I freeked.   Then moved Tube no. 1 to v1 slot and magically all was right in the world.    It's only hapenstance that I had that ONE good tube out of the 3 in the V1 slot all this time.   

Anyway......   All 3 tubes in the V1 slot have hiss.  But my question is IS tube no. 1 & 2 really hissy?   Or is the system just pickiing up tube no. 3's REALLY horrible hiss from the background?  (slot v2 or 3?).   Or if in hi mode - slot 2 and 3 tubes do 100% zero for the sound?   If in Hi mode, am I hurting myself by having that hissy tube in slot 2/3 - or doesn't it matter?  

I'm going to play around today.  I have 3 Groove Tubes, and 3 Yugo Tubes.   I might be on the verge of buying a tube or 2 to try in that v1 slot.  

[Audible Nectar]

My guess is that you have tubes pre-screened/selected for the Peach (stock tubes, or at least screened). You want "the quiet one" to be in V1. If you are in "Hi mode" it's ALL you need to worry about - getting that "quiet" tube in that critical slot.

If you would use lo-Z in the future, you would want the other two tubes (V2 and V3) to be the same tubes. If the V2 and V3 tubes are a bit more hissy, that's OK, that won't show up aubibly, since those tubes are "followers" in the circuit IIRC.

So it sounds like you have things now where they should be. If you are looking to "flavor" further, get a GOOD QUIET tube for V1.

It's kinda cool because the V2 and V3 allow you to have a use for those tubes that aren't exactly "perfect" in noise - the electrical function of V2 and V3 allow more flexibility here.

[meagain]

Yes - All 3 tubes in that set are hissy in v1 slot, but No. 3 is insane.  

What's confusing to me is that the least hissy tube (No. 2) sounds like shit musically compared to the more hissy No. 1 tube.   Switching between them is like listening to 2 different amps or speakers.  This frightens me about tubes.  They are the same brand/type, etc. of tube.

Tube testers don't test for noise/hiss?   WTH!?   Why?   What's the point in buying tubes that hiss?   I'm stunned.

Yes, Peach into VRDs.   Going to try these other tubes again today.   

[jcmusic]

Megain check your email.

Jay