alternative designs- why go jubilee?

[Deang]

it was just a suggestion. i don't think you realized the gains in the jub lf over the khorn and the khorn is mighty lf horn in and of itself but the jub is a step up.

Hi Roy. I don't mean any disrespect when I say this -- but what I don't like about the idea is that the old current top section (Heritage) falls short when compared to the sound you get with the better drivers and tractrix midhorn. The jub LF section is undoubtably fantastic, but I see no point in plopping that shrill horn and raspy tweeter on top of her. Everyone likes better bottom to top bass, but given a choice I'll take a better midrange and treble. Of course, that's just me -- and someone is always reminding me that I'm just one guy in one room.

if you think $6000 to $7000 was high man you wouldn't like this price and for a smaller horn. on our horns, the bigger they get, they better they work. i still think for ultimate, it is what miketn and coyotee-o have, a 402 and jub with electronic crossovers with of couse, delay.

I actually don't have a problem with the price of the Jubilee top section. I do think the price for the unfinished bottom sections is too high.

I am curious about how something like that K-402 works in a smaller room. I mean, whatever happened to controlled directivity..

Check your mail in a bit.

[Deang]

It's not just the bean counters Seti. Even so, counting beans is important -- they have a company to run.

[rigma]

Dean,

I sent you a PM

Rigma

[seti]

It's not just the bean counters Seti. Even so, counting beans is important -- they have a company to run.

True but offering just one product off the pro cinema line just tweaked a little for the heritage line isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. It is not going to send klipsch into the poor house to pull this off. PWK intended for it to be available and I think they should do it just for that very reason with at least a limited edition run. Look at all the smaller speaker companies offering extremeley expensive horn systems it is amazing how much they sell them for and klipsch should have another speaker to get some of that market share. I know I am being idealistic. I'm just a guy who loves folded horn speakers and admires PWKs bass bin designs and I don't really care for much of the new stuff.

[sfogg]

Dean,

"I am curious about how something like that K-402 works in a smaller

room. I mean, whatever happened to controlled directivity.."

From what Roy has said the K-402 is a CD horn... one that also happens

to have a Tractrix flare. I'd love to play around with them sometime

but three of them up front would be a couple of inches wider then my room.

Roy,

Do you have any other CD/Tractrix horns that might be a touch smaller?

Shawn

[Deang]

PM received -- response coming.

Seti, there have been many Jubilee threads over the years, and those arguments have been made many times (along with many others). Bottom line: She is available for those that want her.

[Marvel]

From what Roy has said the K-402 is a CD horn... one that also happens

to have a Tractrix flare. I'd love to play around with them sometime

but three of them up front would be a couple of inches wider then my room.

Shawn

Just trim those inches off thesides of the hornin the middle. You probably wouldn't even notice it. []

[seti]

PM received -- response coming.

 

Seti, there have been many Jubilee threads over the years, and those arguments have been made many times (along with many others). Bottom line: She is available for those that want her.

Dean, You are right of course I was just being the squeeky wheel : )

Your Khorns are beautiful what wood is that?

[mikebse2a3]

A little while before I went to The Hope Pilgrimage this year I had been contemplating trying a Two Way (Or Possibly a Co-Ax Driver such as D-Man is using) using the Klipschorn's Woofer with a suitable High Frequency Driver/Horn. Time has brought about advances in Technology and Design in Drivers and Horns and the ability to Test and Verify the System(TEF and Other test Equipment) as a whole as far as Smooth Frequency Response and what I believe is very important is the ability to Measure/Visualize the Phase Response of a Systems Individual Componets as well as the Total System Behavior in the Frequency, Time and Distortion Domains. So with these points in mind I wanted to see just what was possible in sound reproduction and so I started investigating my options.

So I get to Hope and for the first Time I get to hear the Jubilee with the K402/K69-A Top End so needless to say I was very interested in the High Frequency Horn and Drivers Performance. I've said it before " The K402/K69-A Horn is a Very Good Reproducer of Sound" and as far as integrating into a small room enviroment it might be a large horn physically but it is so well behaved in it's dispersion that I couldn't imagine a better horn for even a small enviroment performance wise anyway with the technology available today.

So here I am in Hope and the First Time I see the Jubilee it is in the Anechoic Chamber were Roy is testing and tweaking the passive crossover for the Demo To Come Later. So I'm lucky enough to spend a few minutes talking with Roy and of course with my mind thinking Two Way/Klipschorn I asked Roy wouldn't the K402/K69-A work good with the Klipschorn Woofer and he said yes so at this time I'm thinking this might be the option I've been looking for with my Klipschorns.

So next day we are at the Plant and Trey and Others are going to start breaking us up into groups to Tour the Plants different Operation Sections and so I took advantage of this oportunity to Head to the Lab to hear the Jubilee that Roy had setup for us and hopefully talk with him more. (I was actually lucky enough to spend what seemed like around an Hour or so with just Roy and myself listening to the Jubilee and talking with Roy about different design goals of speakers in general and the Jubilee particulary.) So with the direction I think I'm heading with changes to my Klipschorns I'm paying special attention to the High Frequency K402 Horns dispersion and reproduction of sound and to say I was happy with what I heard is a real understatement! The problem is when I began to listen to the total sound reproduction I realized very quickly that The Detail and Authority (ie: Clarity, Fine Detail, and Dynamic Impact is Second to None that I Have Ever Heard) with which the Jubilee reproduced sound was exceptional and the best I have ever heard. Just so every one knows Vocals is where I begin with sound and if good Vocal reproduction isn't there then I'm not going to be happy, so Just to make another point that I feel is very important is that the Jubilee with the K402/K69-A is VERY! VERY! Good with the reproduction of Vocals IMHO.

So now with all the above experiences I realized my direction for the Klipschorns had changed and to obtain the Quality of Reproduction In Sound I heard in Hope meant that I would be buying the Jubilee with K402/K69-A and going with an Electronic Crossover (for several reasons but mainly for the Time Delay Option for the ultimate in sound. Once you spend time with the system you can definitly hear the advantage of being able to also use Time and it's window of adjustment as one of the variables in the Blending of the High and Low Frequency Horns.

I would also like to say for those that are thinking of owning the Jubilee. If the Reproduction of Sound in your home is an important pleasure for you then I believe the Jubilee is a great deal at this time! Some might make the mistake of thinking that I just had plenty of money to spend when I bought the Jubilee but that just wasn't the case. Buying the Jubilee was a big leap for me but what I've come to realize for myself is that I have spent many years in this hobby and for me it has always held a special interest for me so I'm at a point in life were I say to myself life's short so lets relook were I'm going with my system and what I want from it and so I found a way to reprioritize my desires and things I owned and so I sold several things to help offset the cost of the Jubilees. Owning the Jubilee isn't any different than owning boats, motorcycles, RTVs and ETC........... it's just more about deciding were you get the most pleasure from our different interest. For a little different way of looking at things I submit owning Jubilees could be a way to save alot of money in the long run because for the most part it cost alot of money to buy and sell equipment so to buy into one of the Absolute Best Reproducers of Sound could save you money in the long run and be giving you alot of pleasure in the long run.

mike tn[]

That's it: "BUY JUBILEEs and SAVE MONEY!!!!!![]"

[chops]

how about a khorn hf section on top of a jub lf?

I don't like the idea.

Just a suggestion, but it might be better generate a few thousand of the composite version of the horn you and PK designed together -- and finish her in the way you guys originally intended. Sell two versions: prettied up and raw birch with the horn just mounted on top with brackets. I would probably make the leap if that horn was thrown into the mix -- I think others might feel the same.

You guys should split the Heritage line and sell two versions of the Klipschorn and LaScala: One with the current/original top section and another with a tractrix horn and better tweeter: "Classic Heritage" and some other name for the updated ones.

And I thought my room was small!!!!

[DrWho]

and just for doc, we will have to see about that horn sub.................[:#]

!!!! [8-|][Y][][:^)][8-)]

So Klipsch has plans for building a horn sub?!? Must be for the cinema market [H]

Re the HF driver:

I can understand where Klipsch comes from needing to make money and all that. As fun as this hobby is for us, it's still a business for them. With that in mind, I don't think they'd mind us building our own HF drivers for the Jubilee...isn't that what was going on with the khorn in its first few years? I've been meaning to build one myself, but alas I can't afford it, let alone have the time to carry it out - and I doubt any you 'oldfarts' (a term of endearment) would want to invest a lot of $$$ in something that would take a good 3-6 months. [] You lose a lot in performance going smaller, but it's better than having nothing at all...and we've survived this long with the normal khorn MF/HF sections... [][]

The only problem I see with us building our own is that we won't have access to the same cool phase plug technology - which is a vital part of getting that compression driver to cover such a wide range with controlled directivity.

And I don't know the model # of the horn, but there is a much much smaller horn that can be used in place of the K401. I wanna say it's the K601? The only difference is it start loses directivity at a higher frequency (like around 800Hz?)...nothing a little acoustical treatment couldn't address.

[Coytee]

Of course, it DOES help that Mike is loaded.

[]

[Deang]

And I thought my room was small!!!!

At least you have some distance between the speakers. I have a couple of things that help me -- 20 feet of open space behind my chair and the irregular shaped ceilings. I get very good sound in that room, but it is quasi-nearfield -- not the spacious quality you get in a big room.

[Wrench722]

Hay Chops what are the dimension on the K Horns false walls in the top Pic. ??

[Deang]

My Klipschorns, so I guess I should answer the question: 40 3/8" from the floor to the top, and 41 7/8" from the back corner to the front. Those aren't the panel dimensions, just the dimensions of the unit. The 'triangle' platform is 42.5" x 42.5" x 60" (long edge across the front). I'm about 6" short of the complete bass horn -- the real deal would have put my midhorns about 3 feet apart.

[rigma]

Dean,

If you replied to PM I did not get it. Remember my email is .net not .com

Rigma

[Deang]

Your 'PM' showed up as an email in my inbox. I simply replied and hit 'send'. Anyways, the K-31-K's in your KLF-30's are the same drivers that are in the Jubilee.

[jwc]

Hey folks. Anyone remember the link in which Roy posted all the plots of the jub Bass bin with the passive network as well as a bunch others?

jc

[mikebse2a3]

Well I've been listening to some of Johnny Cash song's on the American Recordings collection of CDs and I've done this before but I tried it just out of curosity again and it is a real ear opener as to how important the Klipschorn Jubilee LF section is to the quality of sound reproduction I'm getting.

With the EV Dx38 crossover I use (set at 500Hz crossover freq.) you can easily mute any Low Frequency or High Frequency output so that it is easily audible what each section is contributing to the total sound of the system.

As I've said before to hear each section by itself just doesn't sound like what most people would expect. Neither section on it's own sound like they would combine to such a solid and complete sound that they do.

My point with this is that the Jubilee LF Horn is very important to Vocals since it reproduces the fundamentals of the human voice and when someone ask "why go Jubilee" this is one of the best reasons of why I would recomend the Jubilee LF to anyone thats vocals are important to them and I believe in combination with all the other attributes of the Jubilee LF section makes it stand out from all other LF Horn Designs.

mike tn[]

[mikebse2a3]

Hey folks. Anyone remember the link in which Roy posted all the plots of the jub Bass bin with the passive network as well as a bunch others?

jc

jc

I believe this is what you are looking for beginning here and for several more pages.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/17/774669/ShowThread.aspx

mike tn[]