Question for Bodcaw Boy (Roy)

[bodcaw boy]

hey deano,

i saw a request for fresh drawings for the jub lf today.....gee i wonder why?

have a blessed day,

roy delgado

(where is that camera?)

[sunburnwilly]

Hey Roy ,

Could you help me out with a network for my Klipsch Acoustimass System ?

"I asked Trey , but he never got back to me ."

[seti]

hey deano,

i saw a request for fresh drawings for the jub lf today.....gee i wonder why?

have a blessed day,

roy delgado

(where is that camera?)

ROCK! : )

[Deang]

What's wrong with the old drawings? Have you told Richard and Mike yet that you built theirs with the wrong plans?

[PositivAttitude]

What's wrong with the old drawings? Have you told Richard and Mike yet that you built theirs with the wrong plans?

Wrong plans !!! God, you guys are funny.

[Parrot]

I used to do a lot climbing. We'd hit base camp at around 6000 feet and the last thing some of the guys wanted to do was get up the next morning and haul gear and rope up to the top while engaged in class III scrambling. It's more fun talking about doing it than actually doing it. A few would always decide it was more 'fun' to stay at 6000 feet and relax. The rest of us would leave them behind and go. On the way home, the guys that stayed were always kicking themselves in the ***.

I can only sit dumbstruck, in total awe at your brave soul, willing to risk it all in climbing to such lofty heights. When you're up there in the heavens, looking down on us mere mortals, it must indeed drill home your superiority to the weak at heart. We must look like so many little ants to you, you are so high.

What an interesting analogy, mountain climbing and Jubilees. Would it be a fair comparison to have one of these little ants scaling the monstrous 402, looking down scornfully at other ants from his colony who are busy walking around on Bose cubes?

[Coytee]

What's wrong with the old drawings? Have you told Richard and Mike yet that you built theirs with the wrong plans?

I thought yours were being outsourced to China, to be made with less expensive materials... like the chrome plated plastic you see nowdays?

(Sorry Roy, but someone had to tell him)

[Deang]

Paul, you had over 12 hours and that's the best you can come up with? It didn't have as much to do with those went on as it did with those who stayed behind. When you start, you expect everyone to see it through. If some decide not to move forward, it's disappointing, but it doesn't impact or detract from your personal goal. The point of getting to the top is not so you can 'look down' at, or on those that stayed behind, but to experience the fulfillment of a dream. In fact, when you get to the top you hardly look down at all. Those that stayed behind spent the day with their necks craned back, and when you come back down they want to know all about it. Oh yes, they want all the details, and you can describe the whole deal and show them the pictures later -- but you can't give them the feeling of experiencing it, or the experience of feeling it. There's been a lot of talk about this speaker around here and on other forums over the years, and now that there's a way to actually have a pair -- we have to be subjected to this petty nonsense. I always considered you one of the more intelligent people around here, and that you of all people to be the one to lead this charge in smallmindedness is disappointing to say the least.

[Deang]

What's wrong with the old drawings? Have you told Richard and Mike yet that you built theirs with the wrong plans?

I thought yours were being outsourced to China, to be made with less expensive materials... like the chrome plated plastic you see nowdays?

(Sorry Roy, but someone had to tell him)

The only thing he told me about China was that if I told anyone I was getting the top sections for free -- he was sending me off on a slow boat to China.

[Parrot]

As you know, Dean, I've encouraged you in these threads to buy Jubilees, especially when you were going to buy just the bass bins. They would be the perfect vehicle for you to tinker around with the top, with almost endless possibilities to feed your ravenous hunger for continually having something different. Knowing your aesthetic sense, my main concern was that you covered up whatever horn you ended up with.

I'm a little surprised that you're buying into the 402 spiel whole hog. You do seem to be quite an amazing expert on these things considering you haven't heard them. But why let that little matter get in your way?

[IndyKlipschFan]

People are still referring to what is being offered as "a cinema product". This is completely false, and saying this really shows how little you understand what is going on here. OK, so correct me here.

Detailed Description

With auditorium space at a premium, the Jubilee low-frequency device, with its 24-inch depth, is the ultimate space-saving solution. Developed by audio pioneer Paul W. Klipsch in 2001, this dual 12-inch loudspeaker system couples the horn-loaded woofers with the KPT-402-MF mid-bass Tractrix Horn coupled to the Klipsch K-1133 two-inch exit titanium compression driver. The high frequencies are easily handled by the KPT-Grand-HF-T Tractrix Horn.

KPT-Jubilee® 535 Specifications

frequency response

45Hz-19kHz +/- 3dB-10dB @ 34Hz

sensitivity

105dB

crossover frequency

400 Hz, 3k Hz
24dB/Octave

coverage angle

Horizontal 90° +/-20° 200Hz-18kHz
Vertical 60° +/-20° 500Hz-19kHz

high frequency horn

KPT-Grand-HF-T

mid frequency horn

KPT-402-MF

woofer

KPT-KHJ-LF

dimensions

78.3" (199cm) H x 98.6" (250cm) W x 57.3" (146cm) D

weight

329 lbs (149 kg)

features

Delay:
LF: 0 ms
MF: 3.5 ms
HF: 4.6 ms

And I found this in the "Cinema" section Dean... And I know I have used that term that this is a Cinema speaker your getting. If what you ordered is different how is it different? Am I missing something? Will you need the HF section as well?

Look I applaud you for doing this purchase.... it is cool BIG speakers are back too.

I just want to understand too.

It has been said that the 510 could/can also be used if you do not want something THAT big on top? It may look smaller but it may perform good too?

Your thoughts?

P.S. I am not trying to argue here, (And I do not think most are on here, to be honest Dean) We just want to understand?

Roger

[Deang]

Paul,

"Expert", I'm flattered. I only know a little, but it was enough to help me put the right questions to the guys who know a lot, and it helped me grasp most of what was in the answers that were coming back. I was actually going to do the K-510, and I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy with that, but everyone, and I mean everyone I talked to told me the bigger the horn the better it sounds. Even still, I was going to go with the K-510. It was only after I found out from Richard that the height of the cabinet with the K-402 was 66" -- that I started thinking about it. When I was fed the price difference between the metal K-510 and the fiberglass K-402, I decided what the heck. Hey, it's not like I can't drop back to a different horn if I don't like it. What I didn't want was a situation where I was looking back and going "what if", or "I wonder". I figure why not just try it? I've said this a thousand times around here -- describing the sound of something isn't the same as hearing it, so I want to hear it. I look at it like this: PWK had enough faith in Roy's credentials and abilities to allow him to work with him on this project. PWK probably could've had anyone of his choosing, but he chose Roy Delgado. Roy designed all of these horns, and is intimately familiar with all of them both technically and sonically. He's earned and deserves the benefit of the doubt. What do you think?

[Coytee]

Dean, When you're done with Parrot, I'd like you to justify why you put pepper on your food, drive a white car and have your bathroom painted an off white color. I refuse to accept that you simply choose to, that's not good enough for me.

[:|]

[sfogg]

Dean,

"but everyone, and I mean everyone I talked to told me the bigger the horn the better it sounds."

The only caveat I'd make on that (based directly on experience with the K510) is that the 'bigger=better' probably should be applied to like horns of similar design, not just universally applied to all horns. Because every horn I have had on the mids/upper driver has been dramatically bigger then the K510 and yet the K510 bests them all.

I hadn't really seen any sizing of the K510s before I bought them. When the UPS driver showed up with only one fairly small box with 'Klipsch PROFESSIONAL' all over it I was disappointed that all the horns didn't arrive at once. After I opened the box up and found three horns inside it I was completely shocked. At that point I think in my head I was thinking 'bigger=better' so that they couldn't possibly compete with the dramatically larger 805Bs I was running could they?

Shawn

[Deang]

Richard, Paul just wants the horn PK wanted. I understand that, that's how I used to look at it too. But once you understand why PK wanted the K-403, you realize there is a very good possibility that if he was alive now, and saw the plots of the new driver -- he very well may have asked Roy to toss it under the bench and make one more like the K-510. People have to keep in mind that the properties of the K-403 were needed to maintain relatively flat response on-axis (at the expense of a flat power response) because of the rapidly falling HF response of the B&C driver they were using on the prototypes.You don't need the K-403 to have "a Jubilee" -- the new driver means you can have your cake and eat it too.

[jwc]

Shawn.

You say the 510's bests them all. Are you meaning form say 600Hz and up or are you speaking of the more higher frquencies such as 2000Hz and up. The reason I asked is that I was under the (unprofessional) impression that the big horns had the nice low mids.

Another way of asking....do you think the 510 will best the some of the BIG Altec horns in the low mid range. Subjectively and objectively. Roy uses that 510 with the k69 as the most higher frequencies in some of the cinema setups and a big horn for the lower frequencies.

jc

[Deang]

Shawn, yeah, I'm pretty sure you were one of the bigger is better guys. I think in your case though you found the K-402 interesting because you thought it might do a better job of holding its coverage pattern at the lower frequencies.

[jwc]

Richard, Paul just wants the horn PK wanted. I understand that, that's how I used to look at it too. But once you understand why PK wanted the K-403, you realize there is a very good possibility that if he was alive now, and saw the plots of the new driver -- he very well may have asked Roy to toss it under the bench and make one more like the K-510. People have to keep in mind that the properties of the K-403 were needed to maintain relatively flat response on-axis (at the expense of a flat power response) because of the rapidly falling HF response of the B&C driver they were using on the prototypes.You don't need the K-403 to have "a Jubilee" -- the new driver means you can have your cake and eat it too.

Dean. Where in the world did you get this information on the K-403 and it's use with the B&C driver. I've never even heard of this K-403 mentioned on this forum until the last week or so. Much less its pitfalls/performance.

Heck.....Maybe I should be pounding some questions why the Drone version of the jub hasn't seen the light of day. There must be a story about that ....never posted or told. Or did I just overlook it. Maybe I don't know the right people. In fact....where is that bass bin...who has heard it.

jc

[Deang]

And I found this in the "Cinema" section Dean... And I know I have used that term that this is a Cinema speaker your getting. If what you ordered is different how is it different? Am I missing something? Will you need the HF section as well?

Roger, they're fairly different. The cinema version is a three-way designed to fill a theater. It takes a gazillion watts, and is voiced for behind the screen. What a handful of us are taking delivery on is a two-way version reengineered by Roy for the home.

[sfogg]

Dean,

"I think in your case though you found the K-402 interesting because you thought it might do a better job of holding its coverage pattern at the lower frequencies."

Yes, it will. That would be a case of comparing like horns... the K510/K402 are of the same type of design. I don't doubt that the K402 is likely a 'better' horn then the K510 because of it holding its coverage pattern lower. It also loads to a little bit lower then the K510. I would have loved to have gone with the K402 as well, I didn't as three of them are wider then my room. That is not going to work for me. But it worked out fine as the K510 is a very good horn too and is much easier to 'fit' into my room.

Shawn