Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I know my large purchase of stock in Klipsch couldn't have caused the upward momentum in the stock market[] What a run of profits if anyone is invested in the market! Just some worthy news on an otherwise DULL day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Top Notch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 There is nothing really to smile about. The US stock market only looks likes it is going up when you measure it in US dollars, which are going down (because uncontrolled dollar liquidity (debt) is being created each day and the value of each unit is less each day). Try charting the US stock market for the last five years in oil, Euros, corn, gold, or just about anything else... They all look the same - the US stock market is down. The claims every so often that the DOW has hit another high are false claims when using a depreciating dollar to price the market. The falling dollar automatically makes the market prices go up without any increase in value. US dollar money supply growth (13% per year current rate) is making it require many more dollars to buy the same thing as before - it makes purchases increase in price but not in value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 There has to be one in every crowd...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 There has to be one in every crowd...[] Well, add me to the not-quite-so-giddy-about-the-stock-market crowd (I guess this makes two of us!). The fact is that stock prices have no basis in reality at all. Speculators and fund managers must be smokin Crayolas to cause market gyrations like we see most every week. Somebody breaks wind in Brazil and the market drops like a rock. Some fool in D.C. makes some meaningless (and most likely fact-less) statement, and the indices soar. I am convinced that the disaster of the sub-prime mortgages is still in the future millions of sub-prime ARMs are soon to reset, and the foreclosures are anticipated to be of Biblical proportions. Yikes. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Cheers (?) Rob (out of the markets and into guaranteed interest funds since 12/99) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 All good points, and to add another fact that it is the BIG cap stocks that are overseas that benefit from the weak dollar. Despite the depreciating dollar ( which is projected to decline further according to CNBC analysts) we still reap the benefits of exports as a result. Will this reduce the trade deficit....probably not! Just looking for a silver lining since fixed income/assets aren't the place to be either. Hedge funds are also swaying the market, but any volitality in world news will surely negatively impact the market. What I can't understand is that the EXPERTS say the economy is creeping along w/strong fundaments and profits. IMHO, just a matter of time before inflation kicks us in the YOU KNOW WHAT. Ride the wave while you can I say, but don't get caught with your pants down. BE ALERT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Inflation is already here. The government statistics calculation methodologies have been tweaked a few times over the years to spare us the sad truth. If stats like unemployment and inflation were calculated the same way as back in the 70's they would have to report 9% unemployment and 10% consumer price inflation. Similarly with fudging on GDP, M3 (that one was so embarrasing they stopped reporting it), and so on. "Ride the wave while you can I say, but don't get caught with your pants down." This is a classic danger - it even has a name "the greater fool". People think they have time to respond when the bad time comes and they can just extract their money. Already some hedge funds are "closing the gates" to requests. With the electronic nature of the market trading, the whole thing can deflate in a few minutes. When this happened in 1987 (Oct crash) Pres Reagan formed a quiet group informally called the Plunge Protection Team. Their job is to head off market crashes by closing trading and doing Central Bank operations to save the financial economy. Were you surprized by the little crash back in February? I was not, because I noticed that the Plunge Protection Team formed 10 days before the crash after not having formed for many years.. I even mentioned in this forum - its like firemen showing up at your home with the trucks and hose and ladders. You say, "Where's the fire?" and they say, "Right here in a few more minutes..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 MONEY! MONEY! MONEY! [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Kinda suprised the market is doing as well as it is since this is historically the "slow" period, so it makes one wonder. I haven't checked the trading activity (heavy/light), but it seems day traders are also creating an artificial environment as well. The whole market situation is quite scary w/a global economy influencing our own markets, and with foreign investors that have more disposable income, they can come and leave the U.S. markets as they darn well please. Heck, who was the Middle East guy that just purchase a large share of stock in financials ???. But again, where do you put your money when ROI is so small on money market funds? I specifically target 401K's where investment funds are so broad. The "prognosticators" are so misleading sometimes, but with rising food/fuel prices, I am one concerned citizen. Just today they announced that retail sales forecasts were announced on the"cautious" side and when they exceed expectations, BANG....up goes the market. Personally, I fear we are all being mislead by erroneous or faulty information. FYI....I've pulled back from stocks anticipating a 200-400 pt lose. What's the coined phrase? Do the opposite of what people say/do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Doing the opposite of what the majority do - I am one of those, we call ourselves "contrarians". Lots of people got hurt in the market when the tech dot com bubble burst, I stayed out. Lots have been and will be hurt by the real estate housing bubble which is bursting now, I never refinanced to reduce payments; instead I triple paid the principal and finished my mortgage in 11 years. Lots are leasing vehicles, liquidating their home equity, and running up credit card balances; basically going into debt, I worked very hard for the last ten years to get completely out of all debt. I also saved money when the general trend has been to spend more than earnings. My biggest concerns have been looming unstability in the financial world brought on by the constant growth of the money supply, massive over leveraged investing, alarming adoption of mortgage debt, and the increasingly risky movements in the markets. It sounds like you follow the news - it is getting very ominous. Current conditions are the absolute worst for anyone holding debt be they individual, corporate, financial house, fund manager, government, or country. It is actually quite difficult to find an investment instrument that is backed by asset value rather than credit debt. If you hope for the best but plan for the worst you really have to be prepared for trouble ahead. I think that trouble will be the catastrophic value collase of investments based on credit debt, which includes the vast majority of world investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Yes, I also got caught up in the "free" money of credit, but have escaped that trap fortunately, and now find myself trying to overcome the inflationary pressures towards retirement (still only 50, and hence why I ask the question). Seems we are losing ground on this front with dollars chasing more dollars. Just heard on the news tonight it cost 50 to take a taxi ($100.00) to the airport, and not uncommon in England to pay $75 for a small lunch. U.S. tourism should be great for overseas travellers, but I dare say not many U.S. citizens will be travelling much with the Euro and pound exchange rate. Point blank....IT SUCKS, but what can one do? Thanks for your responses and enlightening statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 There is nothing really to smile about. The US stock market only looks likes it is going up when you measure it in US dollars, which are going down (because uncontrolled dollar liquidity (debt) is being created each day and the value of each unit is less each day). Try charting the US stock market for the last five years in oil, Euros, corn, gold, or just about anything else... They all look the same - the US stock market is down. The claims every so often that the DOW has hit another high are false claims when using a depreciating dollar to price the market. The falling dollar automatically makes the market prices go up without any increase in value. US dollar money supply growth (13% per year current rate) is making it require many more dollars to buy the same thing as before - it makes purchases increase in price but not in value. Don't invest in gold then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Doing the opposite of what the majority do - I am one of those, we call ourselves "contrarians". Lots of people got hurt in the market when the tech dot com bubble burst, I stayed out. I invested in "some" "quailty" (that could mean almost anything) tech firms back in 94 and I sold some on the way down and even at the bottom I was still up, now they have just gone up. Tech ain't dead but was never the nirvana that it was cliamed to be. Dividends are important, just mind the P/E and the payout ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Stock Market is a nice game if one can afford to tie up their money, and wait it out. Me, I need to eat today, and I'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. I don't believe any figures releashed by this present administration......We're fighting a War, remember, and that tab will come due very soon.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I look at the markets with a critical eye. It's nice when the markets boom, but I can never find a ryme or reason. Of course I'm not an investment broker either. In February I invested in 5 stocks just to play with. Out of the 5 stocks 4 have lost money even with the record highs. However, the ironic thing is one of these stocks is an oil company that has gained more than the losses of the other 4 stocks and overall I'm ahead. I will say I would have been up more had I just put that money in a money market account, but where's the fun in that! My money's tied up in 401K's, IRA's, and Real Estate. The truth of the matter is that I'm 44 and I'll see MANY market swings before I need to use it so to me it's comical it the moment. I'm really 10 years away from deciding about narrowing down my porfolio. We leaving today to go on a cruise next week. Maybe my new retirement plan will be gambling on the ship[]. Probabaly have a better chance of understanding what "the next card" means rather than figure out the markets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Phil, good move at your age........................401's, IRA's, you have to ride them out, long term.........You have to take care of your future yourself, the old days are over, no more company pensions, medical benefits, companies going bankrupt and cheating retiree's out of pensions, it's on the person's shoulders to take care of the future.............Stocks work for some.....401's work for others......if I had extra cash I'd buy land, there is only so much of it, it always increase, never decreases in value........what do I know, I'll be the guy in the cardboard box, I'll call home............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Now is the "sucker" time for people to jump into the market. The big guy's are in control trolling for the "little guys" and take their money with joyfull glee. Most of the time when the market goes down the little guy "sells" and takes the pipe. The big guy's play for the small moves with the puts and calls. And nobody knows what the hedge funds are doing. Remember the hedge fund debacle a few years ago where the feds (Greenspan was in a panic) and Congress enacted an emergency bail out to the tune of 100 billion dollars to keep the American economy from collapsing? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Talkin' about timing.........just found out today that my best friend is thinking about bidding on the house next door to him FORECLOSURE! These were long-standing neighbors w/marital issues I do believe; however, this too will depress the family housing market if it accelerates nationwide. Just thought it interesting since we are discussing the "state of the economy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 ...if I had extra cash I'd buy land, there is only so much of it, it always increase, never decreases in value........what do I know, I'll be the guy in the cardboard box, I'll call home............... OB, you sound as wise as my Mother..........they don't make anymore land, but even REITS aren't good investments these days. Amazingly, I remember when I built my house back in '92 on a 3/4" wooded parcel that was $12,500. Now you can't touch land for less than $60K. Boy, did I ever screw up selling that home even though I made $19K in an 8 year period. Today, that house would go for $180K+ and I paid $72,500 for my rancher. Can't go back, and can only go forward.[:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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