xdetroitx Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I think the major thing is that Bonds cheated. Whether he is ever caught or not. Steroids are like amps. Is a 200 wpc mac going to make your music sound better or is a jvc boom box. More power = better performance. You are right in the fact everyone is doing it these days. But, the point is, did Bonds break Aarons record, and the answer is NO. Aaron was not taking steroids when he set the record, and if he had been doing steroids, I am sure you could easily add a few 100 to what he did hit. It's just like body building. There is no way possible a person on steroids can compete with a guy that is not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Not that it would matter 100% today. I wish Barry Bonds would say ok, here is my urine, test it all you want too... Let it be a legit test. If I am clean, I never want to be bothered by this 756* again, if I am dirty loaded with steroids take it all away from me.. And then,,,, have him pass it too! You may not like him personally. But, he has been a incredible ball player and that can't be denied! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I would think at this time he would be clean. He seriously can't still be taking with all the surrounding controversy. A grand jury investigation? Only an idiot would not be protecting himself by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 It is somewhat interesting that this thread on Bonds comes on Aug. 9. The record was broken August 7. It may or may not mean anything, but in this forum where there are quite a few rabid sports fans, one has to wonder. I think I am observing a surprising diminishment of interest in this all time home run record. If indeed BB attained the record with performance enhancing substances, it just doesn't mean what it used to mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/08/08/2007-08-08_hollow_record_for_bloated_slugger-1.html http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/08/09/2007-08-09_bonds_magic_say_it_taint_so-2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/08/08/2007-08-08_hollow_record_for_bloated_slugger-1.html http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/08/09/2007-08-09_bonds_magic_say_it_taint_so-2.html Great article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 "never knowingly took steroids" --Bonds "did not have sex with that woman" --Clinton or is it both for Bonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I believe that Barry Bonds did take steroids. I just don't really care that much or think that it influenced him more than anyone else. The people he was competing against while he set his record were taking steroids too. Do you think they were not? What about all the other players who do not set records day in and out? Is it OK to take steroids if you don't set a record? Why is Barry Bonds being singled out unfairly that his record should not count? It's like he took 'em.......and he was the only one......and so his performance improved unfairly. That's BS. Are we going to say that all the future records now are not legit because of sterioids.....or just Barry Bond's records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Who was it (baseball player) that was quoted in the papers that said, "An average player becomes good with steroids, and a great player becomes totally fantastic". Steroids make your reaction times 2 to 3 times faster than normal. To my way of thinking it is worth about 300 home runs. Cut those 252 pound steroid muscles back down to 180 lbs and he would have 300 home runs. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 I believe that Barry Bonds did take steroids. I just don't really care that much or think that it influenced him more than anyone else. The people he was competing against while he set his record were taking steroids too. Do you think they were not? What about all the other players who do not set records day in and out? Is it OK to take steroids if you don't set a record? Why is Barry Bonds being singled out unfairly that his record should not count? It's like he took 'em.......and he was the only one......and so his performance improved unfairly. That's BS. Are we going to say that all the future records now are not legit because of sterioids.....or just Barry Bond's records? If I get a "BJ" from some chick at my house and I am married, ok I am wrong its our issue. If the United States President gets one its the country's issue. Bonds being the elite athlete (president status in terms of baseball) then he is the person in the spot light naturally. His talent and subsequent salary justifies it IMO. Expectations not to cheat/ take steriods follow. Yes other poeple cheated, but they did not break records and so are not under the spot light in the way Bonds is, nor are they paid as much. Sould they be punished? Yes, tossed out or suspended, but they are compramising records are they? Ain't life grand? How about you can't get busted for speeding if you can drive over 190 MPH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Who was it (baseball player) that was quoted in the papers that said, "An average player becomes good with steroids, and a great player becomes totally fantastic". Steroids make your reaction times 2 to 3 times faster than normal. To my way of thinking it is worth about 300 home runs. Cut those 252 pound steroid muscles back down to 180 lbs and he would have 300 home runs. I think Jose Conseco said that. Maybe not, sounds more like something said by someone not taking them. Mark, the records just don't mean anything anymore. They should start a new way of keeping them -- how about "Records by Human Chemical Spills"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Its fascinating to read so much passion expressed regarding yet another audio topic... Yawn. Steroids, doctored baseballs, moved fences, restrictions on bats, and the list goes on. The game has changed. Comparing players from different eras is an absurd exercise in futility. MANY factors have changed! And as far as steroids, name a 'sport' where they have not made their presence known. The Tour de Farce, the Olympics, ALL high school, college and pro sports! Or focus on drugs in general. Its funny how you only selectively focus on a certain select few drugs! And isn't it interesting that the beneficial medical advances that have resulted in longer careers, shorter injury downtime, and other factors that also effectively enhance a career are also ignored. And whatever you do, don't look so closely that you discover how'illegal' and controlled drugs are used in controlled conditions for positive uses.And if this confuses you, you can start with the use of variousamphetamines to increase the rate of learning and assimilation and tohelp control sleep patterns in astronauts. And as regards role models. I would suggest that there is a greater problem than simply steroids if a sports figure is held in such high esteem as to be a role model. I would suggest that needs to be a pretty radical improvement at home if this is the net sum resulting in a child's world view. Of course I guess we expect the next thread to be a moral evaluation of all of the character of all of the dysfunctional musicians and musical artists. But at least you have your choice ranging from murderers, to drug addicts, to pedophiles, to ...well, you name it! But selective attention is always a fascinating exercise to watch. Andwe have it in spades here on the forum in all things social andpolitical. That Bonds accomplished the feat is an interesting footnote in the larger context of sports and society. Nothing more. But for so many finding meaning and orienting their life and values around sports or any other event where you are nothing but a bystander is a bit lame to begin with. May I suggest that you view sports simply for diversionary entertainment and find your values and role models elsewhere closer to home. But I can certainly understand so many's dependence upon artificial constructs for a siurce of values and meaning. Next thing I know my world view will be shattered when I discover what Frodo, Bilbo and Gandalf were really smoking in those pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I just don't think Barry Bonds ought to be singled out. All during his so called period of using steroids to increase his home run total........the others were doing the same thing to better themselves. I guess Barry must have just taken more than the rest of the guys. [] How do we know that there aren't players who do not take steroids that would have broken Hank Aaron's record as well but could not hit as many home runs due to some of the pitcher's bettering themselves with steroids? The point is that steroid use is rampant and to suggest that steroid use is responsible for one person's success or failure is irresponsible. No one knows what the game would be like if every single player was guaranteed clean. There is just no way to know....and to know when steroids or other drugs really began to influence the game. People who do not have positive evidence or are not experts in the field (like the press) ought not to point an accusatory finger. I think the press has a few really bad reporters in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 "How about you can't get busted for speeding if you can drive over 190 MPH?" Naw just 167 MPH.... No police.. And it was enough for me...for like 2 mins.. I will say this slowing down to 65 later, I felt I could of gotten out of the car and walked at that speed! hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 mas, we'z jist tryin to figger out if he's a cheater ur not, ur if it be far to cumpar hiz doins to that thar Hank feller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 ...systematic drug abuse by prominent athletes (and by society as a whole)...Alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, steroids...doctored baseballs designed to enhance home runs, fences selected to enhance home runs, designated hitters designed to enhance home runs, the mound lowered to encourage home runs... The more it changes, the more it stays the same. You want to compare players? Compare them to their peers who played at the same time with the same prevailing conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 i agree with mark1101--he's being singled out and it's a witchhunt. now they are saying that the device that he wears on his elbow has been outlawed by baseball; but everyone that was already using it was "grandfathered" and can continue using it. they say the device is weighted and increases bat speed and provides a consistent, level swing. anyone find it strange that the experts come up with this "fact" after he broke the record? draw your own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannj Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Mas, I'm not so sure there is a whole lot of passion expressed in this thread. I consider the whole thing to be a joke. I posted my desire that now that this is over with ESPN will no longer be forcing it down our throats (wishful thinking I know). Most here have opinions on the subject but overall it doesn't appear to be too energized. What Barroid did or did not do I say "Meh". Your take on sports figure role models and what should be happening at home to create a healthy world view is right on. There is little in this thread to indicate that anyone commenting here is finding meaning or orienting their life around sports. It is just a minor discussion on an internet forum. - Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 I just don't think Barry Bonds ought to be singled out. A partial list of Major League Player caught using performance enhancing drugs: Player Team Date announced Penalty Position Reference Alex Sánchez Tampa Bay Devil Rays April 3, 2005 Ten days OF [2] Jorge Piedra Colorado Rockies April 11, 2005 Ten days OF [3] Agustín Montero Texas Rangers April 20, 2005 Ten days P [4] Jamal Strong Seattle Mariners April 26, 2005 Ten days OF [5] Juan Rincón Minnesota Twins May 2, 2005 Ten days P [6] Rafael Betancourt Cleveland Indians July 8, 2005 Ten days P [7] Rafael Palmeiro Baltimore Orioles August 1, 2005 Ten days 1B/DH [8] Ryan Franklin Seattle Mariners August 2, 2005 Ten days P [9] Mike Morse Seattle Mariners September 7, 2005 Ten days SS [10] Carlos Almanzar Texas Rangers October 4, 2005 Ten days P [11] Félix Heredia New York Mets October 18, 2005 Ten days P [12] Matt Lawton New York Yankees November 2, 2005 Ten days OF [13] Yusaku Iriki New York Mets April 28, 2006 Fifty games P [14] Jason Grimsley Arizona Diamondbacks June 12, 2006 Fifty games P [15] Guillermo Mota New York Mets November 1, 2006 Fifty games P [16] Juan Salas Tampa Bay Devil Rays May 7, 2007 Fifty games P [17] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Just an FYi : The policy was to be reviewed in 2008, but under pressure from U.S. Congress, on November 15, 2005, players and owners agreed to tougher penalties: a 50-game suspension for a first offense, a 100-game suspension for a second, and a lifetime ban for a third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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