Realistically, how large a room is needed...

[mcp]

for Klipschorns? I assume my two rooms of 17 X 13 and 20 X 12 are too small?

[JJkizak]

They will work but will be choked off slightly depending on your ceiling height. Bell Labs says the ultimate room size is about 35 x 35 and said 25 x 25 would suffice. And they did reccommend a full powered Cornwall center speaker. Somewhere somebody has the complete review as published. That review was what nudged me to purchase them in 1965.

JJK

[fini]

JJK,

Bell Labs wouldn't have recommended square rooms, right? You must be referring to general volume here?

[JJkizak]

I can't recall the exact wording but I remember those dimensions and the center channel reccommendation, that's why I bought the Cornwall for the center and the Fisher amplifier with a power derived center channel. I have had them in an "L" shaped living room (25 x20 x 12), a 17 x 17 ft room with open kitchen, 20 x 15 ft living room, a 25 x 25 ft room with high 10 ft ceilings, and the present room at 24 x 13. The best sounding room was the 25 x 25 ft. The next best was the "L" shaped and the present works pretty good after adding the sub. The 17 x 17 was terrible. You have to do a lot of "mickey-mousin" around until you get what you think is OK. The sub helps to bust up the bass nodes. You might have to add an equalizer (throw-up, barf etc)*, get your self a Radio Shack SPL meter, A good frequency test CD, and I used the AVIA test DVD for checky-checky.

* Many purists insist not to do this and build a new house instead.

JJK

[RFP]

mcp...

12' X 21' is working just fine for me !!

Rob

[Guest " "]

16 X14 worked fine for me.

[joessportster]

i have had k-horns in rooms as small as 11 by 16 and they sounded fine to me

Joe

[IndyKlipschFan]

I think most will tell you without having to turn to a center channel between a K horn... that nirvana number is 18- 24 feet wide..

Of course, where you sit back in that "V" position.... it can be a little smaller or slightly larger... Smaller, if your room is more smaller over all and your sitting position is not that far back...... And bigger.. if you allow for a Center Channel.

Seems to me that 22- 24 feet, the few times I have been lucky enough to feel wow.... that is just perfect is the golden ratio. You get perfect stereo imaging here, and not too wide, where you feel a void in the center. Klipsch will never publish an exact number... but you will get a LOT of people agreeing 18- 24 feet wide just feels right. (especially, assuming you have room behind you as well for the sound to travel.)

Some people just want drop dead accuracy and imaging..(Where your seating position is everything..) . And some need BIG ROOM fill me up sound (where it is not as crucial.)

If you have a flat wall along the back where the k horns are, you will really appreciate their great sound and that bottom end. I was at 22 feet in my last house... it was just awesome... When I built this last house I live in now, I have a book case built to the wall coming out so that sound can't travel the back wall. BIG mistake on my part I wish I never did. They are still awesome... but oh my.... in my last house... Even better.

[rplace]

IIRC, mine is 15.5 X 17 and I love it. The room does double duty for HT with solid state gear and 2 channel with tubes older then me. Both sound great on the khorns.

[Cornman]

RFP it may just be the photo, but it looks like your Khorn's are not in corners. Is that an illusion or have you built backs on them? I love your rugs.

Cornman

[res757]

16 x 22 has worked great for me! Two perfect corners will do it.

[ben.]

I've had mine in various size rooms, including too-small to just right. Even in a room that's too small, they sound better than most other speakers. I say get them, then put them in the room and go from there. False corners or simply detaching the top portions can remedy situations with less than ideal sweet spots.

I think that my living room is just about what your larger room is, but I don't remember exactly and I honestly don't feel like going out to the garage for the tape measure. My ceilings are low (8 feet)and the Khorns always sounded exceptional.

[RFP]

RFP it may just be the photo, but it looks like your Khorn's are not in corners. Is that an illusion or have you built backs on them? I love your rugs.

Cornman

Cornman...

Yes, the Klipschorns are snuggled up into the corners quite tightly... I guess that the photo's a bit of an optical illusion.

Cheers,

Rob

[boom3]

The Bell Labs review in question was published in High Fidelity magazine in 1963. Unfortunatly, I don't have a copy anymore but somebody, maybe DRBILL or BEC may have a copy.

[dbflash]

at the present time i have mine in a 16x24 room. i am going to redo the room and put them on the long wall.

they sound really good on the short wall. for the last 2 years i was using false corners, but over thanksgiving i knocked out the closets so i had 2 corners on the short wall.

i could not be happier.

danny

[IndyKlipschFan]

OK< good, Danny can give us his 2 cents... I am positive without even hoping I am right.... That 24 separation will SMOKE what he had before..

18 at a min... 20- 24 just feels soooo good!

(you can only scoot up so much it feels weird...LOL)

[mas]

I think that many may be confusing estimates for standing wave/ modal distribution with some other stuff . [][]

The critical dimension that is important is the distance from the speaker where the content of the wavefront ceases to vary.

What is meant by that is that there is a difference between near field and far field. This is the point ** where you cease to experience the individual drivers as distinct entities, and wherein varying distances result in a a variance of how these individual components are perceived; and conversely, the far field is where the perceived wavefront ceases to change with distance.

In other words, the importance of the nearfield/far field distiction is that in the near field the individual elements function and are perceived as individual elements, while in the far field, the elements perform and are perceived as a single element.

You want the room to be sufficiently large to allow your positioning to be far enough away from the speaker as to be in the far field.

All of the rest of the talk of dimensions has to do with acoustical analysis and room treatment and has little to do with the required size of the room.

Typically, the far field distance can be considered to be ~10 times the interdriver spacing. Line arrays are a bit different (and this calculation is available if desired).

But this is one of the fundamental measurements that can easily be made that one might think is of practical use by a consumer that might be published.

**Note: We are not talking about the Critical Distance (Dc) where the direct signal and the refelcted signal (reverberent field) become equal in intensity and the where their intensity varies in a similar fashion.)

The near and far fields may be further defined thus: Within the near field the sound falloff within the room decreases inversely versus the distance or 3 dB per doubling of distance away from the speakers. As the radiation shifts to the far field, the sound decreases inversely with the square of the distance from the source or by 6 dB per doubling of the distance from the source.

or:

Near Field Intensity ~ 1 / r (3 dB SPL decrease per doubling of distance)
Far Field Intensity ~ 1 / r^2 (6 dB SPL decrease per doubling of distance)

[IndyKlipschFan]

Rplace.... If your not 100% satisfied.... Try this crazy "helpful suggestion"... Or at least try it one time..then get back to me..

Unhook the tops of your K horns.. and toe them in left one to the left ear where a person seated on the HT seat left would be ... And the right speaker to the right ear of the person sitting on the right HT seat would be... Basically you want a little "V" to you but crossing BEHIND YOU SLIGHTLY and NOT in front of you..(AS they appear now)

I realise I am suggesting to get a laser pointer...put it right above the tweeter centered on top of your k horn and do this, do that.. Go on some trust here....you will be AMAZED at the results!

You might want to tip the Belle front up slightly (to again with a laser pointer) to hit your ear height when seated..

Your theater looks fantastic as is... Please this is in no way of cutting it down... just trying to give you the 100% ultimate SOUND experience too...

[flannj]

My comments in a previous thread on this subject:

24 feet corner to corner in a 2 channel set-up. The furthest back I can sit in the room is 13 feet, probably not perfect, but I'm not gonna knock down a wall... yet. Took this picture tonight with a 18 - 55 digital lens. I had to stand in the next room and shoot through the doorway, the fill flash can't quite cut it.

- Jim

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/85510.aspx?PageIndex=1

[IndyKlipschFan]

Jim... Looks great to me...What do you think it SOUNDS like as well?