I'm going to have dinner with the Chief Field Engineer for Bose....

[masterxela]

My invite through the physics department here at MSU:

01Apr08 is the next meeting of the IEEE SW MO Subsection. We will host Tom Tyson,

Chief Field Engineer, and Stephen Payton, Field Engineer, both of the Bose

Corporation. They will present the Bose® Modeler® Design Software and Auditioner®

Technology:

Have you ever wondered what goes into designing loudspeaker systems for public

spaces? Come see how state-of-the-art Bose® tools remove the guesswork. Modeler®

Design Software analyzes performance of loudspeakers and anechoic speech in threedimensionally

modeled acoustic environments. Auditioner® Technology allows you to

listen to a system's performance in real-time with calibrated sound pressure level

playback devices.

[bigdaddy]

Wow are you going to introduce him to the AVS forum so he can feel the love?

[oldbuckster]

There are more BOSE products in American Homes than Klipsch products ............... Some folks like BOSE, doesn't make them bad people, but they will get bashed here ............... watch !!!!!!!!!!!

[Mallette]

There's more lite beer in American homes than single malt scotch. Doesn't make them bad people, but.... [6]

Dave

[Timmikid]

April Fools?

[colterphoto1]

They've done it before

http://www.freelists.org/webpage/montana_audio

report back please

[Edgar]

I am an engineer who had the opportunity to visit Bose in an "official" capacity several years ago. I discovered some very interesting things.

1) Bose has a lot of money, and as a result they have some of the BEST engineering tools I've ever encountered anywhere.

2) Bose builds toys. That's not intended to be an insult. Mattel builds toys, too, and there can be some real high-tech involved. So if you think of Bose as a manufacturer of "high-tech toys", many things start to make sense that didn't in other contexts.

3) (I only have this story second-hand.) Apparently many years ago Mark IV Audio (parent company, at the time, of Altec Lansing, Electro-Voice, University, Dynacord, Klark-Teknik) employed a leading industry guru in "auralization" technology -- 3D modeling of acoustic spaces. At some time he was hired away from Mark IV by ... Bose. I wish I could remember his name.

Greg

[BSUfbfan]

No bashing here.... no need to.

At the last brick & mortar A/V store I worked at, we had a small listening room set up with a Bose Acoustimass system, and a Klipsch Quintet package with a KSW-12 at matching price points..... never had to bash the Bose because the Quintet system sold itself.

The only other time I ran into Bose was on a bid project for a large 10,000 seat multipurpose venue. The ownership group picked the Bose system due to name recognition, although I had bid a complete Klipsch CA-8T based package. I still hear 5 years later how they wish they had chosen the Klipsch system, IMO the Bose is way out of its element in that environment.

[LarryC]

The only other time I ran into Bose was on a bid project for a large 10,000 seat multipurpose venue.

Is that Boise State University?

[BSUfbfan]

No, it was a rodeo arena.

Sadly, a Bose system would be a huge upgrade for Bronco Stadium which has a series of poorly placed PA horns that work intermittently, probably due to the fact that the amps are placed in wooden boxes out in the elements.

[thebes]

My invite through the physics department here at MSU:

01Apr08 is the next meeting of the IEEE SW MO Subsection. We will host Tom Tyson,

Chief Field Engineer, and Stephen Payton, Field Engineer, both of the Bose

Corporation. They will present the Bose® Modeler® Design Software and Auditioner®

Technology:

Have you ever wondered what goes into designing loudspeaker systems for public

spaces? Come see how state-of-the-art Bose® tools remove the guesswork. Modeler®

Design Software analyzes performance of loudspeakers and anechoic speech in threedimensionally

modeled acoustic environments. Auditioner® Technology allows you to

listen to a system's performance in real-time with calibrated sound pressure level

playback devices.

Tee hee hee, snicker snicker, I'm feeling puckish just thinking about it.

If you get a chance ask this clown, I mean highly regarded engineering whiz, how they can develop software to analyze speaker interactions and make it a useful tool when Bose has no published specs on their own product.

In other words if the software says you need something, like say a speaker that puts out X amount of watts at 104bd etc. how can I tell which Bose speaker fits the bill? Or is this software designed solely to print out a particular model of Bose only speaker to use. in other words, boiled down, is this software simply a fancy looking marketing tool."

Not technical but I think I'm saying this more or probably less correctly.

Also ask him what "anechoic speech in threedimensionally" means. Sounds like gobbledygook to me.

Oh and try to be wearing a pair of Klipsch earbuds while you ask this question.

[jacksonbart]

April Fools!!!!

[masterxela]

Sorry, no April Fools. I've been asked to do a presentation as a summary of his presentation to our Society of Physics Students club... blah

I wish I had a PWK shirt or something

I guess I'll let you know how it went later tonight

[Marvel]

At some time he was hired away from Mark IV by ... Bose. I wish I could remember his name.

That's ok. I believe that Klipsch hired RIchard Paynting away from Bose. At the last Klipsch gathering, someone asked him if he thought he should go apologize to all the folk who bought Bose while he was there. He took it all in stride and we all had a good laugh. He is the Chief Technology Officer at Klipsch. What a night that was.

[dkp]

Sorry, no April Fools. I've been asked to do a presentation as a summary of his presentation to our Society of Physics Students club... blah

I wish I had a PWK shirt or something

I guess I'll let you know how it went later tonight

I have an extra BS button if you'd like to use it. []

[Ray Garrison]

I am an engineer who had the opportunity to visit Bose in an "official" capacity several years ago. I discovered some very interesting things.

// snip

2) Bose builds toys. That's not intended to be an insult. Mattel builds toys, too, and there can be some real high-tech involved. So if you think of Bose as a manufacturer of "high-tech toys", many things start to make sense that didn't in other contexts.

// snip

Greg

Greg, thank you for that insight. You're right, if you think about the acousi-mass (?spell?) systems as the really high tech audio cousin of Air Hogs or those little LEGO robots or the stuff for sale at thinkgeek.com - the whole thing makes sense in a way it never did before. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm serious. Thanks for the insight.

[Erik Mandaville]

Good!

It might be a great opportunity to learn something valuable from someone with considerable experience. Lots of people like Bose products; Lots of people don't. Same is true for many audio component companies. I've been asked by people how I can stand the sound of speakers that were designed for auditorium and PA use (HARSH). We know that's only part of the story.....

Have a good time,

Erik

[masterxela]

The presentation was from guys who work on the professional side of bose, selling/designing systems for churches, auditoriums, stadiums, etc.

They demonstrated a software called "Modeler" that was pretty slick. A user can "build" a 3d room, much like AutoCad, letting the computer know what material each surface is, where people are, how hot it is, etc. Then you place any number of bose loudspeakers anywhere you want, and the program will generate several gradient style maps depending on what you want to analyze: speech intelligibility (apparantly a standardized quantitative thing now), soundpressure, etc, at any listening position.

They use it as a sales/presenation tool to owners of venues. They can show up, show an owner what speaker system A or B will sound like, or recommend acoustic treatment, and show how it will affect the sound.

The program has a database of bose's speakers with pre-measured parameters, which it uses in the "mapping" portion: vertical and horizontal dispersion, sensitivity, max power handling, freq response, etc.

They do NOT have any other manufacturer's loudspeakers built in, available to place in the room to compare to their systems. The engineers said that was the only reason a competing program has more users.

The only portion I raised my eyebrows at was a portable "boombox" looking thing with a chinrest between the speakers, where a owner could listen to what the room would sound like in each scenario..... Yes, it had the cubes. How it could possibly recreate a church in the 3rd row with professional speakers, and then compare the sound to the same church with acoustic ceiling tiles and different speakers, I have no idea. They claimed it did, actually guaranteed it did.

If you guys have any questions, I might be able to answer. By the way, I'm listening to Racer X on my Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's right now, and they are amazing. I should listen to klipsch's new offerings sometime.

[DrWho]

lol, Bose has their own version of EASE now?

Auralization techniques have been used by other companies too, but my limited experience with them is that they've got a long way to go before they are representative of the actual sound you'll hear when it's done. Bose can guarantee that their stuff works because acoustical memory is short and unreliable. I'm also surprised that they're not using headphones for their auralization since that's the only way to remove the acoustics of the room you're listening in...

So did they give you a demo of their auralization tools?

Btw, I've heard Bose has made quite a 180 in the realm of pro-audio...even offering up real measurements of their systems and starting to build speakers that control polars - instead of pushing their splatter boxes.

As far as the engineering there goes, I've heard some crazy awesome things about how they take care of their employees and encourage innovation. They have their niche markets and do a great job of engineering for it.

[masterxela]

EASE was the only other one they mentioned, and didn't stop saying how much faster theirs was at the same thing.

The problem with a demo was that the chin rest is not easily handed around a table, so one guy got a demo, and i heard from across the table. We heard a HS auditorium with and without ceiling treatment. I got what I expected, the sound reverberated longer, and the person on the chinrest said, "It sounds ringy".

As far as the engineers said, ALL PROFITS are pumped back into R&D, after salaries etc. Last year, bose did 2-3 Billion in sales.