Palladiums versus Klipschorns on classical music?

[colterphoto1]

On the original topic, how does classical music sound on Jubes? I don't recall ever hearing it in Hope demos, which I always thought was a limitation on those. I myself find it hard to come to a conclusion about a speaker without hearing something classical on it.

My belief is that it should be included in evaluating speakers under development. I thought the Palladiums did very well on realism and accuracy, though I, too, prefer hearing classical on a good K-horn setup. John's comments are right on target IMO.

Classical music should never be broadcast over big, black speakers. This is ROCK's world.

ok, just kidding ya Larry. A little.

The non-horn-loaded-bass P's suffer a bit from power compression imho. The Palladiums (and Reference towers) may be detailed and accurate, but to my ears BIG horns sound more live. Of couse I've been to a few concerts so I associate big horn sound with concert venues naturally.

Michael

[ClaudeJ1]

Classical music should never be broadcast over big, black speakers. This is ROCK's world.

ok, just kidding ya Larry. A little.

The non-horn-loaded-bass P's suffer a bit from power compression imho. The Palladiums (and Reference towers) may be detailed and accurate, but to my ears BIG horns sound more live. Of couse I've been to a few concerts so I associate big horn sound with concert venues naturally.

Michael

That is too funny, there, Mr. House of K. What's interesting in my own horn-based progression to sonic nirvana, is that the more detailed my system becomes, the fewer decibels I need to satisfy my listening experience. Maybe it's more hearing preservation in my 50's vs. crank up the system in my teens and 20's.

That being said, having a high resolution, high dynamic system, such as mine and most of yours, gives a presentation of guitar distortion that makes it less listeneblbe and more obnoxious sounding, hence the lower volumes also. Plus it reveals good and bad recording techniques of the pop music world. Classical, being a niche market, has to cater to a more sophisticated crowd, and must produce the highest quality in order to sell. It's the antithesis to low bit MP-3's which are also unlistenable on a good system.

[artto]

Bust out pretty much anything with electric guitar and it's gonna have way too much throat and be all crazy congested. Swap over to a better bass bin and now your guitar has its rhythm back without the mud flying onto the drummer's snare.

[bs]

I think u need another listen at my place.

[J.4knee]

The single Jubilee I heard in Hope two years ago at the pilgrimage really impressed me with its detail and presence. Hearing a pair would really have been a treat. I would like to have heard the KG69 mated to a K510 horn also. The KG69/K510 combo is likely an option I will add to ms La Scala’s over time, along with a good sub and active crossover. I’ve always felt the thin tower speakers lacked presence, the Ref have always had very good accurate detail but lack the full presence of the larger folded horn boxes. I would love to hear the Pals though. I am always open to a new approach if it delivers what I am looking for sonically.

PS Richard thanks for the invite to TN. I doubt you’re in any danger of having to pay up but thanks just the same. The Jubilee’s are from what limited audition I have had, the likely flagship IMO

[ClaudeJ1]

The single Jubilee I heard in Hope two years ago at the pilgrimage really impressed me with its detail and presence. Hearing a pair would really have been a treat. I would like to have heard the KG69 mated to a K510 horn also. The KG69/K510 combo is likely an option I will add to ms La Scala’s over time, along with a good sub and active crossover. I’ve always felt the thin tower speakers lacked presence, the Ref have always had very good accurate detail but lack the full presence of the larger folded horn boxes. I would love to hear the Pals though. I am always open to a new approach if it delivers what I am looking for sonically.

PS Richard thanks for the invite to TN. I doubt you’re in any danger of having to pay up but thanks just the same. The Jubilee’s are from what limited audition I have had, the likely flagship IMO

I have heard the superb K402 horn with the K-69 on top of Jubilee bass bin and on top of the MWM bin. I preferred the MWM bass....twin 15's vs. twin 12's. Since there is more net energy in the lower band on the MWM's you give up response at 500 hz. where the Jubilee bottom trounces it, so I split mine and added a midbass horn to compensate.

The only TRUE "Flagship" from Klipsch is the KPT-MCM-4T-Grand, proudly displayed in the lobby of Klispch in Indianpolis. Mine at home is a hybrid version of it. Everything else after that is a "mickey mouse" compromise in comparison. Ridiculously low distortion with high efficiency, dynamics, and detail, period.

[j-malotky]

OK, now you guys are getting rediculous bringing the Jubilee and other gigantic Pro speakers into this thread. But that is the norm here[]

Klipsch identifys there new "Flagship" as the P39F. And rightly so since Roy invented some amazing horns for the HF section of the P. You guys need to give them a listen when you get a chance.

Personally I did not care for the sound of the 402 horn when we were in hope. I thought the 510 vs the 402 horn setups the next year in INDY was a brilliant idea. At first I thought the 402 sounded since it was so "in your face" sounding but as I listend to the smaller 510 that became my favorite. Its too bad that we don't have that wood available. You guys with the 402 horns in a normal size room are insane.[] Again, that is the norm in this mad house.

JM

[oldtimer]

Who? Us? Crazy?

"They say say I'm crazy but i have a good time

Life's been good to me so far.."

(Joe Walsh)

[artto]

If everyone would kindly take a look at the marketing department propaganda for Palladium you will notice the phrase "Luxury Audio" appearing frequently. This is not about high fidelity, its about luxury. This is not about high fidelity, its about style. This is not about high fidelity, its about coolness factor. This is the Klipsch version of a pair of Berluti loafers or a Gucci purse.

Hopefully someday all this will lead to some kind of a new and improved superKhorn version with all the bells and whistles technology learned from this.

But IMHO, the two-way jubs are probably top gun for any kind of "domestic" application.

Claude, I would like to see a picture of your room.

[Amy]

This is not about high fidelity, its about style.

It's actually about both.

[ClaudeJ1]

But IMHO, the two-way jubs are probably top gun for any kind of "domestic" application.

Claude, I would like to see a picture of your room.

Well, perhaps, but my point was to say that you have to be careful when you use the word "flagship" because they all sail in different oceans.

For theater the MCM Grand is the flagship, for Heritage traditionalists, it's the Khorn, for backdoor/hybrid rebels it's the Jubilee/K402 (Grand horn with Grand tweeter driver), and for the image conscious with great aethetic concern, the Palladium is the Flagship.

I have heard them all and all sound excellent. Who cares which is better. They all sound good.............now we need to get to work on the REAL problem.........getting the industry to create better, more challenging recordings so we are not sucked into the Vortex of double compressed pop music download crap. With the most dynamic of source material, ALL the Klipsch flagships can TROUNCE the rest of the turkey and chickens flopping around in each respective category, hands down.

As to the picture of my room, it's pretty ugly too because it's a work in slow progress. I'm trying to get the sound perfect before I finish my HT, so no you don't. LOL.

I'm getting another set of horn lenses for my upper mids tomorrow. They have a narrower polar pattern similar to my midass units, so I will have to adjust the Xover to compensate for the extra 2 db of output at the sweet spot. I'm also working onmid bass cabinets and moving the top MWMs against the wall........all sorts of goofy R&D, but it's keeps getting better.

[colterphoto1]

Good comments all! [] There is truly something for everyone nowadays. (and I dare not use my 'collect em all- it's a set' at this juncture)

But to get back to my point....the tradeoffs in the khorn are very accepting of classical music. In fact, it's no secret that PWK was a very avid listener of classical and intentionally voiced his speakers that way. Bust out pretty much anything with electric guitar and it's gonna have way too much throat and be all crazy congested. Swap over to a better bass bin and now your guitar has its rhythm back without the mud flying onto the drummer's snare. I also think female vocals and especially strings sound more natural with a tractrix, but brass is more rich sounding on the exponential horns...

Quite agreed young grasshopper. Brass sounds great on Khorns, female vox and complex waveforms of rock (nasty Les Paul or Hammond) get a little stuffy on the exponential horns, and do better on the Tractrix. In the low regions though, nothing give me the chills of a live performance like horn loaded bass. KH or Jubilee best the Palladium in the LF department imho. I don't know that much about classical music, but can't help but think that the same holds true- the Khorn will have more powerful bass while the Palladium's tractrix horns and newly designed drivers up top will have an advantage there.

Colter's short list (this is my opinion, which is mine, and it belongs to me- so there)

#1 Jubilee (horn loaded bass and Tractrix MF/HF) the best of all worlds except you have to be willing to accept the industrial look and finish.

tied #2 (it depends on what you're listening to - remember the LS/CW debates?)

Klipschorn - the way the Khorn bass energizes a room cannot be beat by any number of direct radiators for LF.

Palladium - Tractrix mid more open, natural, flat on vocals and instruments in the vocal ranges and upper octaves.

So are you a bass guy or a vocal guy? Can your room withstand the Jubilee 'look'? Do you have the sound space to install Khorns? The Palladium might therefore appeal to a totally different section of the listening population than either of the other top end Klipsch models.

Choose your weapons gentlemen!

yer buddy,

Michael

[dtel]

" OK, now you guys are getting rediculous bringing the Jubilee and other gigantic Pro speakers into this thread. "

NO,................. the ridiculous part is bringing them into the living room ! [] I am Guilty [Z]

But they just sound so gigantic , I cant help it the room is only 18'x 24', but I will be prepared if I ever have to move into an airplane hanger....OK what about, they are not that big the room is just undersized for the speakers.... OK the real Truth is the wife really really likes them and apparently likes decorating with huge plywood boxes that say Klipsch ! [] And I don't like to argue with her because she wins most of the time anyway.

Sorry Mr Larry C, I don't really know much about classical music, and I missed my chance to learn a little about it in Indy.

[ClaudeJ1]

OK, now you guys are getting rediculous bringing the Jubilee and other gigantic Pro speakers into this thread. But that is the norm here

Well, why not? To put it bluntly Classical music sounds great on all of them, why limit the comparison of "flagships" to just two, when there are FOUR.

[ClaudeJ1]

I think we should rename all the Klispsch flagships. The Mac Daddy, the Little Daddy, the Granpa Daddy, and the Baby Daddy. I'll leave it up to you to make the decoder ring.

[fenderbender]

Can I make mine a Mac Daddy with cheese??? (upgraded crossovers)

[ClaudeJ1]

Can I make mine a Mac Daddy with cheese??? (upgraded crossovers)

Sure, Colter's the full stack of the older Mac Daddy for sale. Bring your own cheese.

[Coytee]

Can I make mine a Mac Daddy with cheese???

I'll be the official cheese cutter....would you like one slice or two?

[:|] [:^)] [^o)]

[dtel]

Can I make mine a Mac Daddy with cheese???

I'll be the official cheese cutter....would you like one slice or two?

How come that don't surprise me ? []

My favorite is the MWM / 402, what would that be, the old retired out of production daddy ? well it does fit me. [sn]

[ClaudeJ1]

My favorite is the MWM / 402, what would that be, the old retired out of production daddy ? well it does fit me.

Nope, that be a Little Big Daddy (or Semi Big Daddy if you prefer) because you are only using half of the components.

[ZAKO]

I,m about to throw up on daddy.