sheltie dave Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Mike, your knickers are in such twisted shape your cononuts are in danger of falling off. Chill out, or else blow the gasket early. You are raging about two people who have Jubilees. Maybe that is progress, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 You are raging about two people who have Jubilees. Maybe that is progress, though. That's really kinda funny... [:#] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You are raging about two people who have Jubilees. Maybe that is progress, though. That's really kinda funny... The last hockey game I went to, I saw a few players arguing about Jubilees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 The biggest problem with the DSP boxes (with analog input/outputs) is that IME most people that use them don't maximize resolution through them. If someone is listening to a system that is using 3 bits of resolution through a DSP processor that *is* going to sound really lousy. But is that the DSPs fault or the users fault? Absolutely [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 For the Jubilee bass bins, why not ? just design an exponential or, how about a square tractrix horn and mate it with a really nice sounding driver from Beyma or TAD, add a simple network and BAM! You've got a successor to the Khorn legacy. A real advancement in the state of the art of building fully horn loaded loudspeakers. How is going back to the same approach used for the last 50 years an advancement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Picture of the inside of Mike K's bass bin. Yikes, no absorption in the rear chamber? Thanks for all the pics thus far...it's been most enlightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Mike, your knickers are in such twisted shape your cononuts are in danger of falling off. Chill out, or else blow the gasket early. You are raging about two people who have Jubilees. Maybe that is progress, though. Actually I've laughed pretty hard during this thread but thanks for the concern. Maybe you guys need to take a break and regroup though because some of those post aren't looking so good as the facts have evolved. Good night Maron, Good night Greg and Good night sheltie dave[|-)] mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 The last hockey game I went to, I saw a few players arguing about Jubilees. Thats funny! Yea it use to be low power SET games had the best brawls. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 For the Jubilee bass bins, why not ? just design an exponential or, how about a square tractrix horn and mate it with a really nice sounding driver from Beyma or TAD, add a simple network and BAM! You've got a successor to the Khorn legacy. A real advancement in the state of the art of building fully horn loaded loudspeakers. How is going back to the same approach used for the last 50 years an advancement? That may be true for some things, but I would argue in the same way that PWK always did, that physics don't change, and how is ignoring those physics, and designing a horn that you know won't work on its own and then fixing it with a bunch of processing an advancement? In designing the Jubilee bass bin, PWK went back to the same approach used for the last 50 years, and what did that get us? A true advancement in the state of the art of horn loaded bass bins. Something so simple that it's surprising someone else didn't think of it earlier. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I really don't believe your intent was to help. So you got your personal slam in at me. Are we all set now? Greg Thats because you really don't know me Greg so you just made an assumption which was wrong. If you don't like personal slams don't slam others! Pretty simple concept huh? mike tn You're right mike tn, I don't really know you, but I do know that every time I've got something to say about Jubilees, you ignore the good things I have to say and reply with a long post of blue words that are just not that interesting to me. In the past, I've tried ignoring you, but you just keep coming at me with a condescending tone. Of course, I'm not going to ask you to stop the long replies about my Jubilee posts, I wouldn't do that, this is an open forum. But please don't expect me to play along nicely. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 OK.... Has anyone built a Trachorn that would replace a 402 ? Does anyone have a drawing or dimensions for such a horn with a reccomened driver ? What improvement over a 402.69 combination would one expect ? Prettier ?? less EQ required ? simpler network ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Prettier ?? less EQ required ? simpler network ?? I seem to recall Roy once telling me that the TAD 4002 driver, though expensive, could replace the K69 driver and also require fewer PEQ settings (I don't know how many fewer). Some might even think it's prettier and if so, that would be three out of three! [] I'd wonder if a change to the TAD driver, requiring fewer PEQ's, would satisfy some of the concerns expressed here? (I don't know if it would make a passive more simple as all this crossover stuff is voo-doo to me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 For the Jubilee bass bins, why not ? just design an exponential or, how about a square tractrix horn and mate it with a really nice sounding driver from Beyma or TAD, add a simple network and BAM! You've got a successor to the Khorn legacy. A real advancement in the state of the art of building fully horn loaded loudspeakers. Rigma is using TAD drivers on his 402 horns with passives. I would like to drive up to Nashville to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You're right mike tn, I don't really know you, but I do know that every time I've got something to say about Jubilees, you ignore the good things I have to say and reply with a long post of blue words that are just not that interesting to me. In the past, I've tried ignoring you, but you just keep coming at me with a condescending tone. That's your perception Greg which I obviously can't change but thats not in the least what I have been trying to do. Your right this is an open forum and my responses have been based on statements you have posted based on your opinions which I find different from my own and I have responded (thats what happens on a forum you know) to them with reasons why I believe your thinking is in error. This challenging of ideas is one way that we can expand our understanding of things and if taken in that light this is good for all and I'm sorry you haven't understood this is what I started out trying to do with you. The only one making it personel is you Greg and my offer to try to help earlier was genuine and as far as the condescending tone you got what you gave at those times. Of course, I'm not going to ask you to stop the long replies about my Jubilee posts, I wouldn't do that, this is an open forum. But please don't expect me to play along nicely. Yes Greg I will respond to your post in any way I feel is appropriate based on what you have posted because it is an open forum. If you don't like someone giving a response challenging those ideas with hopefully good reasoned thoughts and facts then we don't have a forum anymore do we. My responses were not attacks but instead attempts at reason but when you slam someone then don't be surprised or act innocent when they respond likewise. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Mike K's driver on the wooden horn. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Another pic. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Thanks for posting all the pictures BEC. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 O.K., it's the Beyma CP750ND, and should we presume he's using it in conjunction with the network provided with the Jubilee clone (the one inside the bass bin)? Good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 ...and designing a horn that you know won't work on its own and then fixing it with a bunch of processing an advancement? Hi Greg, it's comments like this that get some of us a little wound up, and truthfully, it's not an easy thing to correct someone's thinking on a matter without giving the impression you think they don't know what they're talking about. IOW's, it always seems to come off as being condenscending or as a slam. Mike really was just trying to help, but like the rest of us, he's frustrated because it seems like no matter how many times some of these issues are explained, they keep coming up. Since I know you know you don't need the DSP to make the system work, I don't understand why you would say something like the above. I've noticed the positive comments you've made about the Jubilee, but even so, it's apparent you're underwhelmed. You're criticism primarily revolves around the use of the active approach, and like Mike, I'm surprised you haven't pursued the passive method. A horn that "works on its own" is collapsing the vertical response and as the driver climbs in frequency it begins to beam. In this case, the horn is providing the EQ (to lift the natural falling response of the driver), but at the expense of an uneven power response. Extensive studies have shown that loudspeakers with an even power response (equal amounts of on and off-axis energy) are preferred by listeners over those where the high frequencies have narrowing dispersion (beam). The only advantage with that kind of horn is that you need less parts in the filter (cheaper to build). So, going from that kind of horn (K-400) to another of the same type (K-403, etc.), isn't really an "advancement". Though it requires more network, a CD type horn is an advancement because it produces the correct balance between on and off-axis energy. DSP allows for fine-tuning of the correction, but its use isn't mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 It is akin to those of us not in the secret handshake club. Most aren't too worried we don't belong. You all don't need to slam us over there, and then come here for overtime work...Chill out, or else blow the gasket early. You are raging about two people who have Jubilees. Maybe that is progress, though. Examing why people think and say what they do, and attempting to find ways to better explain the complex mechanisms involved with all this stuff, isn't "slamming". Challenging ideas and comments that aren't accurate -- isn't "slamming" either How come you Jub guys didn't teach me the secret handshake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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