BenG Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Well, he it goes the good news. I got a call from Don at Sound World (Houston,TX). "Your speakers are here"(Heresy II's Mahagony/riser stands b/o) Now, I have been working the night-shift for 2 weeks (6pm - 6am)i know, horrible. Nonetheless, I was out of bed and in route to Houston at 10:45am! First impression Looks- not to be rude, but cheap looking, (compared to the Paradigm Studio v.2 60's/Cherry-sold) definetly 70's look. I knew my wife would complain. I can live with that, knowing they are classics, right? Bad news- Sound- I have the Onkyo DV-S535 DVD player as a transport / using RS optical toslink /to Monarchy Audio Model 33 (DAC/Pre) / out through AudioQuest Diamondback Inters. / into the Monarchy Audio SM70 / and out through AudioQuest Slate Spk / to Heresy's my initial impression "what did I do?" The sound is annoying, highs end off with "ssshhh" voices(deep) on male or even mid-bass notes sound awesome, but if the voice leaves the lower notes and heads for some higher pitch vocals then I lose all fullnes and get shrill-like sounds. Familiar recordings such as Young & Rollins Salsa Flamenca, I lost detail in every aspect. (im still in disbelief) I really got depressed when my wife said "instead of getting better your going backwards" "you always complian about my dads system (carver/cerwin vega/EV/soundcraftsmen) its blasting, no refinement" "thats what it sounds like" those remarks really bothered me. Still in disbelief I argued, "wait honey, I need the riser stands, Monarchy DIP, BetterCables Silver Serpent Digital Coax, and beter interconnects". I called Don at Sound World and Asked him if he had the "trade-up" program. He said no Another issue the color was tottally off. It did not match the "reddish cherry" audio/video stand, it looks orange/brown. Should I give it a chance? or should I sell them? stressing- -benny ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacKlipsch Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Bummer dude....How much were they?....What drivers do they have now?....Never heard of a dealer that wouldn't allow an upgrade in a specific time frame....I suppose they were "special orders" and therefore not subject to their exchange policy....Maybe if you called Klipsch, they could help you out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Did you listen to Heritage speakers before buying? What speakers did you use before? Try some el cheapo multi-strand twisted speaker wire. Good luck and get some rest! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 I paid 900.00 for the Hersesy's and 85.00 for the riser stands(b/o) I dont know what drivers they have. I think I will call Klipsch, not really sure what they can do. If they were to help with a trade-up program I would purchase the RF-5's. I have heard RF-7's with my amp I had not listened to the Heritage line before, I went on good ol' gut and reviews instinct. I had the Paradigm Studio 60's, and before those Boston Acoustics VR-M60's thanks Any more input is really appreciated -benny ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 For Sale: As new / 2 hours of use / Heresy II / Mahagony / Riser stands / Purchased 01/30/02 / Dealer: Sound World / Houston, TX Paid: Heresy II.......899.00 = tax = 970.00 Riser Stands....85.00 = tax = 91.00 back ordered Sell: Heresy + Stands.................900.00 we can discuss shipping. Trade: make me an offer -benny ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 First of all, they are going to have to break in. SERIOUSLY. I have listened to so many new speakers in betweeen reviewing equipment, helping others to buy, and of course, my own... speakers. Some speakers take a minimum of a 100 hours or far more to break in and open up. Some need the time to smooth out as the drivers settle. You are actually in the WORST category as almost ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT is new! What do you expect it to sound like? I know there are many people in this forum that do not hear or claim that components need "break in" time. Some are even respected. But I have experienced this COUNTLESS times. Hell, even if you turn components OFF or move them or change the wiring or configuation, it changes sound. Get your system set up and leave it ALL ON. NEVER turn that SM-70 off. NEVER NEVER turn the digital off. And starting playing some stuff to break those brand new drivers in! That being said, I would definitely (and I said this over a month ago), go the USED route with something like the vintage Klipsch, especially the Heresy, which is quite common used and, to my mind, would be actually BETTER than the new model. STill, even so, dont fret and panic yet. Let the mess break in and settle. Those speakers will at least probably lose some of the ragged aspect of the highs and even out a lot in this area. Also, you have a system that is going to be geared a bit towards this sound. THen again, others here like that. Even so, I think there is a good chance it will improve. I have heard too many pieces of gear sound like hell in the highs when new to say otherwise. I really am surprised that no one else here had mentioned this. On the other hand, I find that Klipsch horn speakers, if looking for that refinement, need high quality tube gear and very carefully chosen source components and wire. AudioQuest is tipped up and can have rather grainy treble depending. You have 100% solid state running into it. I know there are oddles of people on here that run these horns with receivers and AV solid state amps. Personally, that combo gives me a headache like no other and is an extremely poor match in the refinement department. STILL.... that being said, TRY BREAKING IT IN. At least you have a pretty good solid state amp.... BUt if that amp is NEW as well...you are definitely going to be getting rough sound (not to mention the WIRE...). And once again, DONT TURN ANY of your gear off. Let it stablize and leave it warmed up. It's one of the main positives of SS; turn it on and forget about it. If your wire, amp, and SPEAKERS are new (not to mention the Klipsch propensity to be piercing in highs with certain material and gear), I would be surprised if you got anything BUT that type of sound. Break the beasts (all of it) in and see what you find in a week or so. Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-31-2002 at 07:43 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 The terms Break In or Burn In are close kin to wire and interconnects topics. When used, duck and cover, because the slings and arrows are sure to follow. ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 I am used to it in this forum where a good portion do and say things that run completely contrary to everything I have experienced in this hobby and passion. EVERY single new piece of gear I have EVER owned needs break in of some sort... And almost every single comment I make needs about two months to BREAK in via this forum as well!!! heh....lord. Some are worse than others. My Rega Planet sounded closed in and confused for a LONG LONG time. That being said, sometimes break in does NOTHING to help a product that is mismatched or uses poor compoents. As for the modern brand new Heresy, I dont think I have heard of anyone that HAD the damn things! As for the loons here that think all stuff performs the exact same out of the box...christ... I just rewired two dedicated lines and put some better outlets in. Had all my crap moved etc. REintalled everything and it sounded PEDESTRIAN and bright as a SAMS SURROUND SOUND demo with the big green push button and BOSE Delight! Took close to a week to even out.... For those that think wire is wire, break in means nothing, watts is watts, analog is dead.... I salute you. kh ps- Yes Randy..., the DVD front had me worried too... Those cheaper DVD front ends can sound poor and etched in highs. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-31-2002 at 08:24 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Garbage in, garbage out. Having not heard these speakers I cannot say if they are as revealing as mine but.... Your front end is not very good. Sorry for the bad news. Before you dis your speakers feed them something tasty, then see what you think. Get better source equipment (beg, borrow, steal) and then make up your mind. I also have no experience with the Monarchy DAC. Were I you I would get a good transport and DON'T USE TOSLINK, then try them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by BenG: Familiar recordings such as Young & Rollins Salsa Flamenca, I lost detail in every aspect. (im still in disbelief) Don't panic! there are several reasons for you to feel this way. First of all, as mobile said, wait to break in the speakers! It is really important, trust me. Secondly, you are jumping to a conclusion to fast. PLAY WITH POSITIONING, I know, sounds like first grade class, but all the speakers have "secret sounds" that can only come out with careful positioning. In the case of the Horn systems perhaps this is more critical than with normal drivers. Toe them in!, play with the distance to the walls! try to put them at your ears level! And, lastly, you are used to your old speakers, of course Heresy's will sound very different. But you have to admit that, perhaps (just perhaps) your new speakers are sounding a hole more "real" than your older ones, and that you have been so used to them that you started to believe that they were producing "good sound" (whatever than means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Manuel is right...although, usually toe-in can produce a more bright sound depending. But it can also increase the focus of the highs with better imaging and a deeper soundstage. I almost always toe my speakers with the tweeters/drivers aligned at ear level or slightly above and aimed toward ears. Some have found that certain horns sound better if crossed to intersect IN FRONT of the listening position. Many of the Single Driver horn loaded contingent do this. It really does pay to experiment with positioning as manuel said, though. I have found the Klipsch to be not quite as sensitive to room placement just as people like ole Tom Brennan have intoned. Known of my speakers sounded palatable in the corners...except the Cornwalls (which do sound better out ...but can sound damn fine in). You surely will NOT get the pinpoint type of imaging you found with your Paradigm speakers, a make I am VERY familiar with as I have owned three pairs of monitors this Canadian brand. The horns can sound very revealing and way more AGGRESSIVE than the older soft dome tweeter Paradigms. It will be a new sound to your ears. Horns are also WAY WAY more forward sounding than your Paradigms..and will take some getting used to. But the dynamics and life should be MUCH MORE LIFE LIKE. What in God's name is Klipsch even USING for their modern Heresy drivers??? kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-31-2002 at 09:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Don't toss in the towel yet. I too am not familar with your Onkyo model, nor the Monarchy gear. Also wondering how long has the gear, interconnects and wire been in place. Experiment with placement as they said and also allow your ears the adjustment time. You will not incur any additional cost by waiting. Randy had a good suggestion too, ask friends who have receivers you like if they're willing to bring them over. Heresy's new and old are still known for great sound! Have no suggestions for the acceptability of their color. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 01-31-2002 at 09:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 As an owner of a pair of 1 year old Heresy's I can probably provide some help. When I first heard them I fell in love with the sound (at the shop). When I got them home it was a different story. My Yamaha 595 amp simply didnt drive the things properly at all. Sounded dreadful. My first stop was trying a 200 wpc Rotel 1080 power amp using the Yamaha as a pre-amp. This was a huge improvement but still very harsh in the highs. I sold the Yamaha, got rid of the Rotel and bought an Accuphase E211. Much better - all the harshness was gone. Later I got a good deal on a pair of 45wpc monblock tube amps. I now run both. The tubes are much warmer and softer in sound than the accuphase but lack the slam of fast bass that the SS amp provides. I play classical, Jazz and vocals on the tubes and rock on the Accuphase. In my experience all of the Klipsch speakers are naturally bright and need taming with the right amplification. This is a game that can be time consuming but often not that expensive (especially if you go the 2nd hand route with decent tubes). Probably not what you wanted to hear as all your gear is new - but my guess would be amplification is the culprit and will make the biggest difference. Everything else is icing on the cake. BTW - If you want to look at cables for the speakers the ones I have gone for are Synergistic silver cables that are just awesome in combination with the Heresy's - but lets not go there - cables bring this board out in a rash. Hope some of this helps. ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Mobile---The drivers used in the Heresey II were developed in-house by Klipsch. The tweeter is a great improvement over the T-35, flatter and more extended highs. It's less efficient than the T-35 and thus wasn't used in the Khorn. The mid is an integrated driver-horn unit descended from the old Hepner, a company Klipsch bought about 20 years ago. The Hepner was very good for the money and had fairly extended highs (thus the 2-way Industrial Heresy that Hoosier was atwitter about), I built several speakers years ago based on it, I'm sure some of the experienced hornies here know the driver. Klipsch has since refined and improved the unit. A friend has a very good sounding DIY system based on these new Klipsch tweeters and mids with JBL LE-10 woofers, VERY good sounding. I wouldn't get too wound-up about the T-35 (I've given many away but I've never given away a JBL 075 or 076) or that cheap Atlas bullhorn driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 FWIW, here is my 2 cents. Room placement and the room speaker interface are the most important factors in how a speaker sounds in a given room. This is true with all speakers. However, there is a big difference with your Heresy's. Unlike virtually any other speaker out there (besides other Klipsch Heritage speakers) your Heresy's were designed by PWK to sound best placed on the floor & IN THE CORNER of the room. So any work in getting the best out of your Heresy's has to start there and work it's way out. My experience in making measurements in my room, of my Heresy's by themselves placed on their risers on the floor, found the most evenly balanced measurements to be about 24" out from the corner. They measured about 5db down at 40hz, 3db down at 50 hz, about 5 db up at 63hz and 3 db up at 80hz. When measured out in the room, placed like most "audiophile" speakers recommend, there was virtually no bass response below 80 hz. So if I had based my impression of the Heresy's in this position, they would have definitely been characterized as bright or shrill due to the complete lack of bass and the fact that the Heresy's, and all of the other Heritage speakers I have owned, have very detailed mids and highs IMHO. So I would recommend starting with the Heresy's in the corners as PWK recommended and working your way out until you have found the balance that suits you. I hope this helps. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Tom, what is plainly evident to my mind (as dense as it can be at times) is that I need to drop by some horn freak's abode with some tube amps of some sort and give some of those Altec, JBL, et al a listen. I have been very curious and have no reference point here besides my experience with old PA systems in bands I have played in run by 200-500 watt solid state amps from the likes of Crown/Phase Linear etc. Those beasts put a hole in my skull for years in practice rooms where the drum kit was placed within arms length away from the top end.... Thankfully, I had the prerequisite 40oz there for ear protection... I do remember a completely amazing setup in my jazz class I took as a gimme back in University days in the early 80s. I wish I knew what that horn setup was (it looked a bit like vintage lansing or JBL)...I had never heard Sonny Rollins come at me like that in my life! So I need to hear some of this vintage stuff again...to be able to tell you you're full of SH*T! heh.... No, seriously... I really want to hear some of this gear. I just need to find some freak that has entered the madness factor of monster horns, all within driving distance. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-31-2002 at 11:35 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Mobile---Why don't you take a few days off at the end of March and come up to Ohio for Mike Baker's Hornfest? Bean-Counter and I are getting a hospitality room, we'll have my Altec 605As and ******'s JBL-Edgars setup and whatever else the guys from Chicago want to bring, maybe I can talk Kurt Chang into bringing his JBL 3115s abd his TriPath those you gotta hear. Bruce Edgar will be there, so will Wayne the Pi guy and the fella from Michigan that makes the CARs. Mike Bates will be there too with his TAD-Sierra stuff, that I gotta hear. This will be a gathering of the MidWest Horny Clans, come on up. We'll listen to big horns and tubes, shoot the bull, get drunk, check-out the trollops in Lima, great time. Just bring your amp and some wires you like. I'll give you a U of Illinois hat to wear. Klipsch are great speakers but once you are exposed to JBL-Altec-TAD etc. you might really takeoff. Maybe not though, my best friend has listened to all kinds of horns and prefers his Cornwalls to any of them, traded his 605s for my Cornwalls in fact. Klipsh Heritages are most certainly more than the sum of their parts, that was part of PWK's genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Ben, Don't Panic. The speakers NEED to break in. I just bought a pair of 20 year old Heresey's last Friday. Drove 8 hours to pick them up. When I listened to them they were not what I thought. I was tired and put them in the Jeep and drove another 8 hours back home. I slept for a couple hours and hooked them up. They sounded GREAT. My girlfriend put on Diane Krall. After the first song was over she turned the CD off and said it gave her chills. She thought Diane was in the room. The room and placement makes a big difference. I have them about 11 inches from the back wall, toed in towards the sweet spot. If you look at any of my post's about speaker wire you will read that I am a big fan of AudioQuest. I started using AQ with my KLF20's. They were so bright that I hated them. I tried AQ and it got rid of the brightness. The wire also took away some of the high's. I just ordered DH Lab Silver Sonic T14 speaker wire. I'll let you know after they break in. I had a Onkyo CD player. It also was bright sounding with the horns, but sounded just fine with my Phase Techs. I bought a Rega Planet 2000. It is so smooth sounding. After listening to your speakers for at least a month,if you still want to get rid of your speakers, I will trade you a 8 month old pair of Jamo E850's, They sound good, but once you hear horns you will never go back to a pair of tweeter's again. danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 That sounds like a Blast! Too bad I'm exiled in Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 It takes time to flush out all of those bad electrons. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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