PrestonTom

Dave, In my case (Cornwall between 2 K-Horns): I have not measured what the level is. The 2 types speakers have different efficiencies and the center amp is a different model. The point is that the level of the center does not need to be loud since the L & R are doing the work. My discussion was meant to shed some light on what the level from the center might be if it powered by a signal that was correlated or uncorrelated at each channel. -Tom

Interesting that some mentioned "Ravenswood". I recently discovered them also, at the price they are a very good value. What is surprising is that last night I was engrossed in adjusting the level of my center channel (Cornwall as an additive center between a pair of K-Horns). Setting the level requires a great deal of experimentation to get the sound stage correct (or at least really good). While doing this I was enjoying some Ravenswood Zinfindal and listening to a Mozart opera (Don Giovanni). I was in absolute heaven. Although I am not sure that I ever got the level of center channel perfected. Oh well, another night... Good luck, -Tom

I also have an additive center channel box. I highly recommend them. You can't lose since it is only about $10 worth of parts and easy to assemble. If the energy is identical (correlated) in the Left & Right and you add them there will be 6 dB increase if it is not the same (uncorrelated or energy only in one side) then there will only 3db increase (at most). The complication is that the center should not be set at the same level as the L & R. You are only trying to "fill in" the image in the middle. So it is best to back off a bit. The output of the center should be subtle. If it is trurned up too much the stereo panorama will no longer be very wide. Additionally since the center channel is usually not as high quaility as the L & R speakers, you do not want its voicing to dominate. The issue of how much to attenuate the center takes some experimentation. But it is a fun experiment. In answer to you question, if you turn the balance to the left speaker, only the Left and Center will be heard (and the Center will not be as loud). Good luck, -Tom

It's a loaded question and I suspect you will get 40 responses with 40 different answers. The one commonality will be a recomendation for "my amplifier". It's interesting that the issue comes up so frequently with Klipsch speakers. Basically, they are a very easy load for an amplifier. They are both efficient and the impeadance does not drop very low. This is a dream situation. As a generalization: They do not require much power & they do not require a high current capability (for transients). Mush of the real difference between amps is audible when they are driving a difficult load. This will not be the case with the Klipsch systems you have mentioned. One caveat however: due to their sensitivity, any noise/hiss/hum in the circuit will be easily heard. In this respect they are not forgiving. It must be a clean signal with clean amplification. If you think you must pay a great deal of money for an amp, then please try an do an "A B comparison" before you write the check. Any quiet amp of a modest size will do fine. It would be difficult to hear any differences in an honest A / B comparison. On the other hand, if you were choosing an amp for an electrostatic speaker, then I would have a very different answer... Good luck and enjoy. -Tom

regarding the possibilities of energy from music up at 30kHz .... I would not worry about the bandwidth being limited by the amp (except for some tube amp designs). The cd player will have an anti-aliasing filter way before 30kHz and the recording microphones will also be bandlimited. Very high frequencies are funny business. The wavelengths are very short, with the consequence that they do not travel very far and can be quite directional. When folks have gone out with the proper recording equipment into naturalistic settings, it turns out there is not much energy at the high frequencies. -Tom

Jim, Congratulations on the K-Horns. I am certain that you will love them. I would suggest that initially, do not worry about changing them. Just enjoy them! Although, do follow the advice about properly placing them in corners and try to get the listening chair to form an right triangle. (the first issue is quite important). -Enjoy .... P Groz, First off, do not panic! As pointed out above there is not much music above 17kHz and secondly you quite probably do not have much hearing up there either. I assume you are a male and past adolesence. I also assume that perhaps you have worked with power tools, listened to live pop music, ridden motorcycles .... Well the bad news is that you may not have the high frequency hearing that you used to have. If you are using a test tone and noticing that it is not as loud when you go up to 17kHz, that could be your hearing, it could be the speakers, or it could be limited bandwidth on some of the electronics (unlikely, but are you using a tube equipment ...) Regarding the low frequency bass. This could easily be room acoustics. The wavelengths are quite long and these are not easily broken up by drapes and carpet etc. Try a narrow band of noise instead of a tone or listen/measure at other locations. Actually I have gotten ahead of myself, first determine if the K-Horns are set up properly: tight in a corner. This is a must. Good luck, -Tom

This is such awful news. My thoughts are with you and Barbara. Stay stubborn!!!!! Good luck, -Tom

You will always do better with an outside antenn. Do not bother with the inside/amplified versions. The first question is: what is the problem? Are you not picking up stations or are you picking them up but there is interference? Second question; Are you in the city or the suburbs? I am in a rural are of SE Connecticut. I have had the best luck with a simple Yagi antenna from Radio Shack (get the $19 not the $14 version). Put it up on the roof and invest in a rotator (about $49). This will give you both sensitivity (the first question) and rejectivity/selectivity (the second question). FM is the real estate around TV station 5 or 6, so using a TV antenna would also work, sort of. Try what I outlined above, it is not all that expensive. Good luck, -Tom

Greetings Bonzo, I appreciate the difficulties in finding speakers that meet "the approval". No good advice on that one. The brightness you are hearing may be a result of not having the lower bass that you have been used to. Just a thought. However, I also own Heresys and although they are bass shy, the bass that they do reproduce seems accurate and even. Many cabinets can not even do that. The issue of dampening material or fill is not always well understood (in my opinion). Fill can break up back reflections for wavelengths that are not too long (i.e., lower frequencies). However, it can help with the higher frequencies (maybe). It is frequently used to tame some irregularities at the low end, not by breaking up the reflections (which it will not - the large wavelengths remain unaffected), but rather the velocity of the wave will be slowed. This, in effect, makes the cabinet appear to be "larger". In doing that, the resonances and anti-resonances of the cabinet are shifted. This is a folksy explanantion. But I bring it up since folks frequently have mismatched expectations about what fill & dampening material can do or not do. In a word, the cabinet size and geometry is dictated by resonances in the woofer and should not be changed. It was done by design. The issue of fill or dampening was designed in concert with the basic design of the cabinet (its geometry and porting). Changing that is risky, if any improvement were to be gleaned it would be by much trial and error and the change in sound would be a compromise of some beneifts and some detriments. good luck, -Tom

Regarding the question about what qualifies an amplifier as being "high current" Good question! It is usually overlooked and folks tend to get overly concerned about how many watts (power) that an amp can nominally deliever. Unfortunately, there is no standard way of defining "high current" (unlike the FTC-mandated/prescribed procedures for sensitivity & efficiency). The issue is whether transient levels of power are faithfully provided to the speaker. However, the duration of the transient is not specified. So the manufacturer can define their own (and this can vary across manufacturers). The reason this is an interseting issue is that if the amp can not provide an adequate amount of current (during a loud passage or percussive sound) then clipping will result (usually odd harmonic distortion). This, of course, is bad. For instance, the Harman Kardon amps are referred to as high current (at least as advertised by HK) since they can produce about 30 amps for a period of a few milliseconds (don't quote me on the actual numbers, but they are in the right ballpark). That is quite a bit of current, for a short time. The issue is not of great concern unless the impedance of the speaker goes low (perhap 2 ohms at low frequencies) or it is not very efficient/sensitivity. Fortunately this is not the case with most Klipsch speakers. It could be the case for others (esp electrostatics). In years past (and this has probably changed) some manufaturers would go to great lengths to get an amplifier to produce high transienet levels of current (amps). This could be done by beefing up the transformer and capacitors. These included amplifiers by Carver, Harman Kardon, Adcom, NAD, Denon (in the old days), Luxman, and Hafler etc. This issue of sensitivity and actual speaker impedance is what determines whether a speaker is an easy load for an amplifier or not. There is also a complimentary issue of the amlifier's "headroom". I will let some else tackle that definition. Good Luck, -Tom

Ezra Pound, The River-Merchant's Wife: A Letter, I think this is on the right track. The rest of the discussion has just been venom. Ezra Pound, on the other hand, is worth contemplating. Thank you, -Tom

Another perspective, and one that I will take some grief about ...... I just came home from work, which by the way pertains to research in auditory perception and what do I find. Well, I log on and there is just a bunch of hostile (and not always very well-informed) exchanges going on. Why? At this point there is not much being communicated. There actually are some interesting issues regarding amplifier requirements for high efficiency speakers, but very little of that is actually being discussed. This is unfortunate since there are some regular contributers who are quite knowlegeable about these issues. Look at yourselves. Do you think anyone would want to contribute in this environment? There is a chance for an interesting exchange, a chance to learn. However, that chance has been wasted. The topic has now degraded to one of hero worship ("PWK says this or that" & under what context) and to bolstering one's ego by criticizing others. Or judging someone or group by the music they listen to. We are so quick to judge others .... I guess an anonymous forum encourages that. Why? .... why, why, why? Just a thought, -Tom

Hanging them from the ceiling? The bass response would definitely be changed. Be careful on that idea. -Tom

There are several good points that have been made. Much of it lies in the recording technique. Unfortunately, we have little control over that. However, Gil is absolutely correct (as he often is). Since the Klipsch heritage are efficient cabinets, the sound will be relatively detailed (given decent electronics that do not have much hum/hiss/noise). Gil has pointed the direction: spend your time, effort, money & energy on speaker placement and room treatment. The cure is not a simple one, much experimentation will be required to eek out all the benefits. I beleive that is the proper course. Otherewise, you will end up spending a great deal of money on electronics that will only create modest gains in improvement. In attempting this you will need some well-recorded (well-engineered) sources to start with. I would suggest music that you are familiar with and that you can demo on other systems also. Good luck, -Tom

Colin, I was under the impression that the issue was whether the distortion was even or odd harmonic distortion. And that one difference between tube vs solid state was which type of distortion they exhibited. One description is that an even harmonic series has more of "chime" quality (in fact, the majority of physical/acoustic devices tend to have odd harmonic series). This, in part, is what makes a chime have a different quality or timbre. Anyhow, I am from the old school and believe that the goal is not to have any distortion during the reproduction. Quite frankly, this is what excites me about high efficiency stystems like horn loaded designs. Even with a modest size amp driving a loaded/horn cabinet it should be quite difficult to clip or distort the signal. These cabinets are such an easy load for an amp. They are efficient/sensitive and the impedance is fairly stable and does not drop too low (does not require high currnet output for the transients. Maybe the levels I listen to are not at a deafening level. -Tom

Bi-wire? No, don't bother. Others have already given you some good advice. If you want to improve the sound, spend your time and energy on speaker placement and room treatment. The differences will be noticeable. Good luck, -Tom

This raises a couple of interesting issues. I am sorry that your wife has tinnitus, I know that this can be a very annoying affliction. For some, it can be quite intolerable. First, you might consider a second medical opinion, there are some medications (aspirin, alcohol etc) that can, make the condition worse. There are other treatments available, although tinnitus is difficult to treat. Second, the thing that has always amazed me about K-Horns is their sensitivity. On the one hand it is a blessing since it produces a very clean and dynamic sound. The flip side, however, is that any imperfection in the source and electronics will also be revealed. Quite frankly, this is why I always recommend that when one gets started with these speakers they should put away all notions about using extra-powerful amps or exotic preamps etc. The system presents a very easy load to the amp so you do not need to get too fancy. But what is critical is that the electronics are quiet, dead quiet. If you insist on using elecetronics that hiss and hum (unfortunately - but they probably have other attributes that you like), you might consider putting a pad or perhaps even a transformer (the latter is tricky to implement) in between the amp and the speaker cabinet. This will of course attenuate the sound (both the music and the hiss/hum). Since the hiss and hum are constant (and not affected by the volume control - usually this is the case) then the hiss/hum will become inaudible. Of course, there are reasons not to do this also. In my case, I tried several different amps and pre-amps. Finally I settled on a smallish solid state amp and I use a straight line controller ("passive pre-amp") instead of a pre-amp (I only have line-level sources). That did the trick. Good luck with solving the electronics problem and I trust that there may be some other solutions or treatments for you wife's tinnitus. Good luck, -Tom

Guys, I came in late on this one. The calcualtions are probably okay. But I sincerely hope none of you are worried about the audibility of a 1 (or 1.5) degree phase shift (esp up at at 20kHz). -Tom

Anarchist, Congratulations! You comments remind me of similar experiences with my own K-Horns. Enjoy them and remember to be thankful. There are billions of people in the world, but there are only about .001 % who get to enjoy the sound of a Klipschorn. That is a sobering thought. Enjoy, -Tom

Regarding COLIN's comments. Yes, bi-wiring (with 2 wires of the same gauge) will decrease the series resistance in the cable. A single cable of two gauges larger (16 ga to 14 ga) will do the same thing. And yes, series resistance could conceivably be a small problem when using a tube amp due to its output impedance. However when it comes to bi-wiring, I think folks have this "model" that the electrons from one wire are "acting" seperately. No, the wires are electrically tied together at the output of the amp and again at the input to the speaker cabinet. They are not electrically isolated. I think the confusion arises because folks get confused due some ultrasonic effects that can occur (but not appreciably at audio frequencies). I belabor the point because I beleive that manufacturers are contributing to the confusion as a deliberate marketing and money making strategy. I am all for folks improving their stereos. However, the efforts should be directed at placement of the speakers and chairs and some relatively simple (or more elaborate) acoustic modifications to their listening rooms. This will make a difference! -Tom

Bi-Wiring is a very dubious proposition. There may be some effect at ultrasonic frequencies (but not at audio frequencies). Unfortunately, it is the effects at the ultrasonic frequencies that folks refer to when trying to bolster their arguments. The fact that the stereo salesman wants to sell you a bi-wire cable for $120 says it all. Seriously, speaker wire should not cost more than 50cents/foot. If you must spend more money on your stereo, use the money to re-arrange your room, add (or remove) carpets, pads, and drapes. Those manipulations will have a much more profound impact on the sound. Good luck, -Tom

The above is good advice. Let me add from my own experience. If you have the "C" cabinets, there is no horizontal strip on the bottom of the fronts. If you are unlucky, when you slide them (even just a little) there is a danger of pulling the outside ply (on the bottom) away and possibly chipping it. Again, plenty of blankets and pads. Good Luck, -Tom

I will repeat what I said: My questions were not meant to be dis-respectful. I have meade similar devices in the past that were for my own personal use - I DO NOT make these for comercial purposes. It is interesting that a high pass circuit has been added and I know that others have made other refinements. I was trying to get a better picture of what the box does. It is obvious that there is good craftsmanship and materials involved and I believe that I pointed that out. I trust no one misconstrued my questions as an attempt to trash the merchandise. -Tom

Gee, I think the only stereo gear I have bought new has been CD players. -Tom

This is a bit off-track and I really do not mean to be dis-respectful. The quality of the construction looks good, the box is metal (not plastic like when I make these). But unless the capacitor (a very simple high pass filter) is made out of gold ("audiophile"-grade), why is the box so expensive? Again, I am just curious and I am not trying to get into an argument. -Tom