PrestonTom

Interesting find. I believe these drivers are no longer manufactured and were always difficult to find anyway. The red flag however is that the diaphragms are not made by TAD. Replacements (OEM) would be quite expensive.

Those are the real deal. They can be used in a KLF 30 or they can be used in a Jubilee (just use a thicker mounting gasket). GLWS -Tom

While you are searching the threads, do a search on "pipe foam" and "false corners" if that is necessary in your case. Many of us love to see pictures

If you are going to spend that kind of money, there are a number of other things that will have a much more substantial impact, much more. Spend some time searching the threads. Good luck, -Tom

I think the conclusion starts with your intro: "the speakers sound perfect to me". I would not bother changing woofers, unless they are damaged. As far as the crossover, you are probably using a type A balancing network. So there are only a couple of capacitors. re-fresh them. (if it is a type AA, there are is another). It is a simple DIY task and you don't need to get anything boutique. If you want, you can bypass them (a small cap in parallel) if you want to get fancy. Search the threads for "bypass". If the total cost is more than $35-50 (for a type A), then you have gone overboard. Please note, that not everyone will agree with me. Good luck, -Tom

Coytee, Good job finding those photos! Jason, that is the problem. The mouth braces are NOT set back. I suppose one could do some surgery, but who is going to do that a new pair of cabinets. -Tom

The grill cloth issue is an interesting one. There is a photo(s) of how the original Jubilee was dressed up (this was one with a smaller wooden horn on top) and PWK himself was standing next to it. It may give you an idea for one way to approach things. It may take some searching to dig it up Good luck, -Tom

Congratulations! I know you will enjoy them. I'm curious about the finish on these factory cabinets with the veneer upgrade. Are the edges square or have they been rounded over (it looks that way, I think). I am trying to figure out if edge banding or veneer on the tops and sides could be easily applied. Anyhow enjoy them, -Tom

You will need to be specific. What parts are Klipsch and what are from Crites.(specifics please) Also, photos are necessary - folks go crazy over the fit and finish.

If your goal is to have a system that is relatively CD (controlled dispersion) then Roy's modified tractrix horns will do this (note that not all "tractrix" horns are CD - the "modified tractrix" ones from Klipsch are CD). Two obvious choices are the K-402 or the K-510. Other horns may or may not have well-measured dispersion patterns available (if they were even measured at all). A reading of Roy's occasional posts will highlight the advantages of this goal. A reading of Toole will provide a needed background and lead to a more developed and detailed explanation about the importance of CD (along with some other issues). Fundamental to the design is a careful decision on whether the system should be 2-way or 3-way (with all the pros and cons of each). The crossover point(s) and steepness are a consequence of the the dispersion, amplitude & phase response, and distortion. My general view is that most forget about the issues of distortion and dispersion and set their crossover points too low. Also keep in mind that setting up a crossover is difficult!. Time alignment and CD horns can make the task easier (but not trivial). Trying to do this with analog components will be filled with difficulties and compromises. In the end, developing an analog crossover can burn up a good deal of cash. I hope I have given a strong hint to think about a DSP solution. Good luck, -Tom

Okay, let me clarify, I did not say "without a method". Since this also that is necessary. My emphasis was "without a goal". That is even more critical. Good luck, -Tom

In a very friendly way I am going to make some very honest statements. 1) crossovers are not easy to design. The pros spend a good deal of time setting up a crossover (in spite of having education, training, software, experience, to do this). 2) what makes a speaker sound good is not just the crossover, it is also the dispersion and frequency response of the system (see Toole for a nicely presented discussion of this). 3) Constant dispersion horns sound great but they also require a high-end boost. Equalizing with passive components usually means attenuating the low end in order to "boost" the high end. This is required for CD horns (such as the K-510). It can be done, but do you want to throw away the efficiency?. 4) Using horns frequently requires time alignment and this is not easily done with passive components. Where does this leave us. 1) you will need measurement equipment, 2) you will need knowledge about these passive components (the software will only give you an approximation) 3) very importantly, you will need to design toward a goal. This last point has some subtlety. Toole among others has emphasized the importance of a smooth frequency response both on -axis and off-axis. Will your network provide that and will you be comfortable trying to measure that? It is not easy stuff. Defining the goal is essential. Trying to do this with passive components is expensive. Trying to do this without measurement and relying on "wait ... it sounds good to me", is a fool's errand and you will only go in circles. You might want to consider an active solution (DSP and multiple amps). It will save money in the long run, but you are still faced with having to define the "goal." Understanding the goal will be helped by a careful reading of Toole's book (this is just one perspective). My friendly suggestion is if you are willing to do the homework (and I don't know what your technical background is) it may be to use a tried and true solution by someone who has a history of competence in this work. IOW, it ain't easy stuff. I believe the Klipsch offering are well-designed. I believe some of the Crites suggestions are well-designed (with his specific choices on drivers and crossovers). I can not speak for the others - they may or may not be. These are "System Issues" and it is not a matter of swapping drivers in and out. It requires a system design - approach. I would suggest going with a proven system design. I know this may not be what you want to hear, but many folks underestimate what is involved. Good luck, -Tom

Is there any chance that the electronics are noisy or that the diaphragm on the tweeter was damaged (usually from very loud levels)?

Let me be clear. On one speaker have the woofer, mid and tweeter connected. On the second speaker have only the woofer and mid connected. I think you might be surprised. Is the "harshness" gone in the second speaker? Good luck, -Tom

Let's try an experiment ... Disconnect the tweeter on one side. Then listen again. Is the problem really in the tweeter? Most folks forget that relatively energy (from music) actually comes out of the tweeter.

Quite frankly, since you are using horn loaded midrange and tweeters, you are going to have a ton of efficiency. That fact combined with the drivers presenting a friendly impedance to the amplifier should make life easy. Well, here is the rub. These are very efficient speakers (little wattage gives much SPL) so any hiss or hum from the amplifier (along with distortion) can be quite audible. If you get an older amplifier, it may need to be bought up to spec when you use high efficiency speakers. IOW, worry less about watts .... Good luck, -Tom

Chris, in your experience, what is a good crossover frequency for the MEH design? (2inch compression driver mated with a pair of 12 or 15 inch woofers). I get wary of running the compression driver too low.

If you are interested selling the Truextent diaphragms please shoot me a PM at your leisure (with their history, model number and a price) BTW, (and I do not mean to pollute the original thread), you might very well be crossing this driver too low. Also, did you have the diaphragms professionally installed or use a tone sweep when they were installed (many of those drivers of that era are not self centering and may need to be evenly torqued and shimmed - in spite of what some others may claim). -Tom

First things first ...... Specifically, what is it about the NADs that you find lacking? When you tried the Adcom, specifically what was their deficit? Good luck, -Tom

I would check first that the diaphragm on the driver is okay. This is done both visually and with tone sweeps. I doubt that an amplifier or pre-amp will make a significant (not incremental) difference. As much as I enjoy Cornwalls, the midrange does have a touch of a "nasal" quality about it. This was partly reduced in the Cornwall 2. Still, they are a good speaker and better than most. Good luck, -Tom

Unfortunately, "little here and a little there .... maybe even more here and even more there" when it comes to cosmetics will probably more than double the price. Besides your wife or girlfriend will still freak out. The tweeter horn really does need to be hidden (for most folks) and the K-402 is a big horn. Perhaps a horn of more modest dimensions ..... I am just wondering how much of a market there is for a big speaker? Any guesses on how many Klipschorns are sold nowadays.

Sorry about the bad news. Try posting your question over at DIYaudio. There are some smart and helpful folks over there.

Andrew, To be honest if you are determined to use a passive crossover then I would not bother spending much money on a fancy driver. IOW, your limiting factory might well be the crossover and not the driver. Does your crossover have any sort of autoformer or a pair of resistors (acting as a voltage divider)? It would be helpful if you spelled out how your system is configured. 2-way or 3-way and with what cross over points, What is the bass bin? What is the crossover? Was the crossover designed to provide any CD (constant dispersion) compensation?

Yes, I would also recommend talking to Cory (or Roy Delgado). What you have pictured is the three-way version. That will be a great system! An option is to go for the two-way system (which is more common in a home system). In that configuration the bass bin and large horn (K-402) are used. However the small horn (K-510) is not used. Here is where it gets complicated. The compression driver (K-691) from the small tweeter horn (K-510) is placed on the large horn (K-402). The mid-range driver is not used. Since this is a somewhat non-standard configuration, the dealer may be unaware about swapping the drivers (it is necessary). There is an SKU that will define the proper configuration (Cory and Roy will know the specifics). Please note, there are DSP settings for this that were performed at the factory by the designer. These can be used on one of a number of DSP crossovers (for instance ElectroVoice, Behringer, Xilica, yamaha, etc). Unless you are ambitious, it is best not to try and set up the crossover yourself unless you use the pre-made settings or have someone looking over your shoulder. Good luck, -Tom BTW, I have used most of the big Klipsch systems, the Jubilees are special.

I think you are right about the cosmetics. Unfortunately, that will produce a cabinet that will be insanely expensive. I think the potential customers are okay with the footprint (I assume these are the typical K-Horn sort of customers), but the height could be a distraction. That leaves shortening the bass bin (perhaps a single 15 inch woofer rather than dual 12 inch woofers) or a new horn with a height less than 26 inches (K-402) and more than 9 inches (K-510). I might be wrong, maybe folks (those that actually buy new Klipsch products - which rules out many of us on the forum) are okay with the overall size. I am not sure at all. Unfortunately, designing a new, shorter bass bin would have some development costs and reducing the height of the horn would also have development costs. I mention this because most of us forget that the R&D does cost money. If the horn is used only in few models then it may not be worth it to the company. Certainly improvements in driver/phase plug technology will be incorporated. Look how many times that was mentioned in the video. I absolutely hope it is not made with an analog crossover filter. That would be a huge step backward (IMHO). Right now, you can buy a Jubilee for 7 grand or so. Another 500-1500 for a DSP crossover. That is $8K for a very nice sounding system. An absolute bargain, even with its "industrial look". However, if the new Jubilee is heavily updated in order to feature cosmetics, the price could be astronomical (any guesses, look at the Palladium line). I have no idea what the cosmetics would look like or cost. However, if the new Jubilee were the same foot print and height, would many of us would pay the current prices for upgraded cosmetics? Probably. However if cosmetics alone raised the price an additional $5 to $10K (my ill-informed guess), I think the market would shrink considerably. Face it gentlemen we are dinosaurs, a dying species. Ask your kids if they would spend that kind of money on speakers - you will get a blank stare. However, I have been wrong before ..... Good luck, -Tom Just as an added note: I think the current commercial version of the Jubilee is fantastic. They are absolutely a great value (even in their stock configuration). They are a way for consumers to hear something that sounds very, very good.