pzannucci

Went to Class D a year or two after the REF-1000s came out. As far as IcePower is concerned, supposedly the more power the better. After months of break in and leaving them on 24/7, they sound very good. I do have a set of Murano Audio 500's and Murano 200s (same modules as Bel Canto REF-500 and the S300 and mono versions - Wyred also). joeinid, First they need to be left on forever with a very long break-in. Don't forget clean power. Also matching is definitely an issue no matter what some say. I did find out that there are differences in the way all the different amps present music. With KLF-30s the 200s worked well, really good on RB-5s. Khorns, a lot of bass but kind of one note. Then on the top, the 1000s have better and cleaner sonics for mid and highs but the bass is more lean. More true with every speaker I tried but a little more lean. They won't be lush through the mids but other traits will possibly convince you to stay with Class D. richieb, If you can find a used pair of 500 watt IcePower amps (1000w 4 ohm), you might like them. Buy used or new breaking them in and leaving them on for a long time. Also run them balanced. Makes a big difference in my opinion. You won't miss the tube sound or heat though I still would like to have a tube amp again, just because. My thoughts anyway. Class D, such as other topographies, may not be for everyone.

Excellent. Look forward to your evaluation and hearing about them. Also, I am very interested in your purchase experience, customs and such, as that appears to be a nice purchase for the money.

Exactly my point

Of the higher end amplifiers, I only have Class D, IcePower and Pioneer D3 (IcePower derivative) left. Tubes and Class A are gone. Heard the NEC Ncores and they sound very good also. Being in the US, I'm surprised you purchased those. They look nice and the dollar conversion may be good now. From what I have read about the amp modules, it is a toss up between the major types, IcePower, Ncore, and Pascal.. Nobody can agree which sounds better. I know my Bel Canto REF-1000s are here for the long haul. Even my Pioneer SC1222 sounds quite good with D3. The key will be how your upstream components and speaker impedance matches up. No matter what anyone tells you, the speaker appears to have more of an impact on the sound of a Classs D amplifier than on a very high quality A/B. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

As with any other components being replaced or when building a set of speakers, the tolerance doesn't matter (as long as you aren't way off) as much as matching. I have heard tolerance is based on batching which won't help with singular caps. To get good stereo imaging, the speakers have to match. That means the more you like to see where the sound is coming from and speakers disappearing, the closer, at least in stereo, the right and left speakers need to match. Bad part is drivers too which will be worse. A small meter that can measure capacitance will be better than nothing here. Bench measuring with load even better so you measure the whole crossover at one time to match the other. So in ways tolerance does matter but not as much as component matching unless they are way off. Also stay with the highest voltage you can get in your price range. Nothing wrong with having headroom. A lot of film types are much higher rated though cost much more but good for by-pass and are said to sound better.

If you want a true d'appolito, close attention needs to be paid to: - both the distance between the woofers and next driver in the crossover (three-way would be the mid) and themselves - the driver interaction will cause nulls at particular frequencies in the vertical axis - crossover slope for the lobes and nulls. There are different recommendations for 2, 3, or 4 db per octave roll-off - frequency of the crossover - to allow the proper driver interaction because driver distance is a larger component of the design than the original speaker was - listening position and height due to narrower listening window from the d'appolito design An additional 2cents.

No ground in the crossover. Now with that said, something in the crossover could be be making the amps unhappy but doubtful. The amplifier would likely go into overload if so but possible. If you have never had a speaker as efficient as the La Scala, they will magnify any hiss or hum. I used to have a tube amp that I loved on 90db efficient speakers. When hooked up to Klipschorns, I could never enjoy it because of the hum.

Looks like nice components though I would wonder about the crossover. That may be the part that needs attention here. It does look like the whole speaker, LF and HF are included.

It is based on at least several factors. - order of the electrical crossover - phasing of the drivers - distance between the drivers - depth of the horn - crossover frequency It all depends on if the crossover when completed creates a good smooth transition between the drivers and if their sum together can be smooth or create a major notch in the crossover / overlap region. If there is a notch, many times reversing the phase on the driver will help the crossover region sum more correctly with some associated tweaks. Design choices.

Sounds like DC leakage or turn on transient. That's why many recommend a filter cap even when doing tri-amping.

Based on what was posted and his site long ago, yes.

Tom, Your dimensions are close enough since I feel the KLF-30's cabinet is too small - also made from 3/4" MDF with little bracing or stuffing - 17" I believe (I'm out of town at the moment to measure). A cubic foot or two would be helpful with solid bracing and partially stuffed (egg crate, batting or something similar) tuned a little lower, into the low 30's. I would recommend a simple program that tells you the resonance of a box based on the tuning frequency (what's that like helmholtz resonator or something. The hand tuning would be the best after that if you felt the need. 8cf would likely be really good but big.

I like it!! Good one. Klipsch did own Pyle for a while I believe. The 2.1 configuration with the nice grills would be a real nice layout for an office.

There is a break in period. That is why a number of respected driver manufacturers run their drivers in before they measure them. After the break in, they can measure them to do driver matching. The key parts that will break in are the woofers and somewhat the mids (none in your speaker). http://support.dynaudioprofessional.com/entries/20823246-What-breaking-speakers-in-means http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/dynaudio-focus-360.218678/ There are the people that say it doesn't exist but I was reminded of it once again with a set of Dayton Audio woofers I replaced a previous set of woofers in a home brew speaker I have. Bass was very tight and not deep the first few days. After that, the bass started to become more pronounced with use. Break in will be a factor in speakers, though how much you never know. They can go from screech boxes to nicely fleshed out in the bass in a period of a couple of hundred hours. Also don't forget room temps can affect bass response. A nice warm toasty room will keep rubber surrounds more pliable. Something that may barely be perceptible in the small amounts of power used for testing / measuring drivers.

Not trying to answer for Dave but he had posted some info here: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/118582-selenium-d250x/?hl=d250x Depending on the lower and upper crossover, along with the horn it is attached to, the D250x can be a very reasonable driver, especially with the price consideration. If you try to push it as low or high compared to the k-55, then the D250x is definitely not going to cut it but cross it around 500/600 and 3500/4k and it does very well. Perhaps Dave has the distortion plots that I believe Al K. did a long time ago. That will tell the other part of the story. Also if you use the D250x make sure you take it apart and damp the back chamber with some foam. That will clean up the response some. The keys will be 1. budget, 2. crossover points and 3. horn. Definitely won't work in a 2 way.

I did my own crossovers, 12db per octave. Considering my 2 Focals are around as efficient as the K-33 (approx.), I used of Bob C's Autoformers and dropped it around 11/12db. Large 511 horn, efficient driver, and hard surfaces in the room required the high attenuation. Depending on the room, you may get away with a lot less compensation.

I have the D250x mated with 511 horns. Since I did a 3 way, the highs are using a D210ti (which looks to be replaced by a D202ti) with a Selenium HM17-25 horn. This combo works well crossed at about 4500hz to the tweeter and 550/600hz to a set of double Focal 13v 7511 woofers. Not exactly as you are saying but I can tell you the D250x is a pretty darn good driver as is the D210 (most likely the 202 is very similar). On the cheap or not, those are not a bad option. Woofers weren't on the cheap but were laying around

Looks like you need to go read all the discussion on time alignment and horns. Why some of the forum members opt for electronic crossovers / speaker management with multi-amps. The key thing is that the longer horns are so far out of alignment that they would require some very expensive enclosure alignment techniques to do proper alignment which also includes electrical phase changes introduced by the crossover. Suffice it to say that the more inexpensive choice is a flat baffle with non-aligned drivers since it would not matter to 95% of the people especially when you introduce the additional cost of alignment. Price point, complexity, and aesthetics wins most times for moderate volume sales.

Some people are clueless (and that's putting it nicely). You can't pick up speakers by their grill cloth. This is precisely the reason for when you are moving, to pack your very valuables or stuff that can't be replace easily yourself in packaging that can be man handled. I hope you find woofers.

Many surrounds are foam based for compliance and also mechanical noise. Double spider woofers will only allow you to attack one though anything flexing will produce noise and distortion. Anything you can do to damp or hide that distortion will be a plus.

Get the crossover as low as possible. If it is up around 450-700 you are in trouble. If you can get it down around 250-300hz with a high order crossover or lower with a 12db or lower crossover, the vocals won't be near as impacted. I agree that lower crossover points that you mentioned are a good plan but what horn are you going to use to play that low? It's going to get very large as in K402 large. Klipsch and most other companies have developed the habit of running horns down to the hairy edge where they have lost pattern control as in say 50 Hz above their cut off frequency is pretty standard even lower some times. If you look at old days standard two way monitor designs 500 Hz was the practical point to cross over and the horns are big and so are the drivers if you want low distortion thought the K55 is truly an amazing little driver than can (at home playback levels) play very low indeed. Best regards moray james. That's why I am limited to my dual Focal Audiom 6WMs. You can get in the efficiency range with some of the 6.5" or 8" pro mid-ranges. Nothing Klipsch makes for home use though. That will clean up the mid-bass very well though and make a night and day difference on vocals.

Get the crossover as low as possible. If it is up around 450-700 you are in trouble. If you can get it down around 250-300hz with a high order crossover or lower with a 12db or lower crossover, the vocals won't be near as impacted.

Good Score!!

That's a rather broad statement, don't you think? I don't believe in much of that audiophile crap, and MY systems sound great....TO ME.....please don't even begin to think that you know what and how much, I hear. I think what Deang is talking about is getting that last 5% out of your system. Until you do it, you don't know what you are missing. This is where the laws of diminishing returns really kicks in and you have to decide if that tiny bit extra is work the time and investment. That doesn't mean the system won't sound good the way it is and be loved, it just means it could be a touch better. If it wasn't that way, we all wouldn't be reading the Klipsch Technical/Modifications thread!!! Some of this could also be perception, that's why snake oil is so prolific. If a system is gorgeous and meticulously put together, most would have the perception it will sound better, maybe even that 5% when it really doesn't. Arkytype, Unfortunately for my SO, my networks sit outside the box and laying all over the floor..... From a damage perspective, I guess the vacuum cleaner can do more than vibrations!!!!

Klipsch did attempt to market them as a studio monitor because their sound quality was excellent. I have not let go of my original set bought right after they came out. If you pair them with a sub/pair of subs, they will out shine a lot of larger speakers, including many Klipsch.