Audible Nectar

He doesn't really address timing, but I recall back in the early 2000s people were making "false corners" to put their KHorns in. Are you saying that these were suitable for out of corner placement for the majority (and certainly prior to say year 2000) of the KHorn production history? Mind you that my hands on experience with a Klipschorn is about zero, save for one listening audition in the mid 2000s and seeing them in audio shops in the early 80s. Pretty much all of my Heritage experience is non-Klipschorn (Belle, LaScala, Cornwall, etc) so I'm curious if I'm making more of changes in the recent models than is reality here.

OK - having been mostly on hiatus from the forum in the recent six or seven years I am curious - when did the Klipschorn bass bin begin to have an enclosed (IOW, suitable for out of corner placement) bass bin as a normal/standard way of manufacture? I seem to remember an anniversary edition being made like that some years ago, but have now noticed that normal production Klipschorns now are made this way? When did this begin as a normal/non-anniversary edition method?

As one who has a fair quantity of vintage heritage I find these new models to look very, very attractive. Love the cursive "Cornwall" on those grills - very cool.

I've not used gloves much and haven't had an issue much with tube reliability. IMO unreliable tubes are the cause of early tube failures (or run near/above the operating limits). If touching the tubes with bear hands makes them live shorter lives, I wonder how many decades they would last if I never touched them? I think this one is a bit of anus audiophilia nervosa and not likely based in any real world truth. Now if you just finished eating a plate full of BBQ ribs you might wash your hands first but I doubt there's much merit to it otherwise. I DO find that gloves CAN assist in keeping the print more intact with vintage tube chalk labels but even that's tricky as some of the chalk labels can be really fragile.

One of the things I did when approaching the idea of owning tube gear, and deciding which tube gear that I would own, was serviceability. Just as I would do with ANY other product I would consider owning, I would research painstakingly to determine whether or not that product was reliable. Amps AND tubes. I owned two different sets of McIntosh MC30s, and once those amplifiers were properly/thoroughly rebuilt, I had ONE service problem with the amps themselves - a CE Engineering can that failed and that I had replaced. This was over a combined total of 25ish total ownership years over two amp pairs. I own a pair of VRD amplifiers and have two friends close (and not on forum) that own the same. In over a decade of each amplifier pair of ownership, ZERO trips to the shop from amplifier failures. ZERO. I did have a Sonicap Platinum cap fail in my VRD pair shortly after inserting these as we found out that the 600VDC rating wasn't true to the real world - turned out that the manufacturer had to back off that claim as they subsequently only spec'd them to 400VDC (not enough for the specific application). Inserted Cardas Gold Ratio 600VDC caps and no such issue since. VRDs don't have trouble in the field. Maybe a tube, but not the amps..... When tubing those amplifiers, once I determined what tubes I wanted for those amplifiers, I set about stocking up my stash with the specific tubes that have a good reputation for long/good service life and sound. But even in that effort, I lost some tubes, too. Had a couple of Genelex Gold Lion KT88 repro tubes go into a blue flamed spark show (and scared the hello out of me in the process) in my pair of VRDs - but it did nothing to hurt the amplifiers themselves. I quit using those brand tubes afterwards, though. Reliable tubes that I like in sound, I stocked up on (for VRDs - Mullard 5AR4s, Penta Labs KT88SC, Amperex/Philips Holland 12AX7/12AU7) and just ran with those. I haven't had a tube fail in YEARS. I've replaced a couple sets in total over time from wearing them out, but no problems of any noteworthy discussion. Once I found out how good the Penta Labs tubes were, I had Doug at Doug's Tubes sell me a matched (at least in close range) set of THIRTY at $125ish per quad (because that's what they sold for back then) and a set of 20ish Valve Art KT100 from AES at just over $100 per quad and will never buy a KT88 type tube again unless I luck into a value priced set of Genuine Tung-Sols. Have about 30 Mullard and similar era 5AR4 and will never buy another. About 15 pairs of Amperex Holland Bugle Boy NOS 12AU7/12AX7 and will never buy another. I dug like crazy to see who had issue with any of these amps, or any other amps in the field I was considering that got any amount of pub that I was considering. Being a Mac fan, I did of course investigate the newer build MC275s, and saw a lot of complaints of early power tube failures, and when those tubes would fail, take out resistors along with them. I saw enough of these reports that I didn't buy those, but bought something else. Seen a number who didn't have much issue, but enough that did to decide they were not for me. Yes, tubes are inexact. Yes, they can be a painindeazz. But when I researched thoroughly I found out through gear selection and tube selection how to minimize those issues and have been sufficiently successful as to not consider ownership a painindeazz at all. Just a bit of rare and educated maintenance (test tubes on rare occasion to see if in need of replacement). Tube gear is much like any other mechanical device - some extremely reliable, some not so much, and some in the middle, with varying ramifications as to what happens when they DO fail. Investigating how parts of the circuit are designed and how that affects normal operation (IOW, is it maxing out the tubes or design to stretch or squeeze that performance out of the amp, or is it overbuilt for the purpose) is another aspect of tube gear worthy of investigation. These are only operationally as good as their weakest link, and if that weak link fails too often it will drive many out of ownership of specific gears often, and tube gear in totality occasionally (which I discourage because that's throwing out the baby with the bath water). That can be avoided with thorough investigation. All in my experience, of course - tube gear need not be a bother or annoyance. Hell, I'm not even a "circuit genius" either. But I DO understand "limits", "reliability", and "worse case scenarios". And in that research and experience the end result is :: insert picture of content tube gear owner on reclined La-Z-Boy here ::

A good friend of mine (and fellow Klipsch and VRD/Peach owner) was found to have a tumor (glioma, as a medical/technical term) deep between the lobes of his brain a few years back. He ended up at Mayo Clinic in Minnesota where the rock star medical staff of Mayo removed that surgically, and has had several repeated visits since then to make sure it remains gone. This week he was examined and found to still be clear. He was fortunate to have good medical insurance, and allowed him the freedom to continue to get added opinion on how to deal with it (including prior visits to the University of Iowa Medical Center). As good as that hospital is it took a visit to Mayo to find the RIGHT medical personnel to deal with this. Keep seeking opinion and never give up seeking solutions. If he had accepted the first opinion he might not be in the positive state he is in right now. Positive thoughts as well.

I found my preamp so no longer in need. Have no clue as to the legitimacy of this ad but if it is I wouldn't pass it up on the basis of case missing alone, as rare as they are.....

It's good to see you 🙂 I've made some system changes here (simplification) as I had what one would call "excess", after a bit of a forum hiatus myself. Remodeling, realigning, personally, financially, and in terms of system. Lots of changes.....but still very much Klipsch! Welcome back 🙂

Start out by refreshing your crossovers - get new capacitors in them at minimum. Bob Crites (posts as BEC) can help you out on this on the lower cost end, DeanG on the "premium" end of the rebuild spectrum. THEN - Listen to your current kit with those refreshed crossovers for a time. Give it six months. Take any opportunity you get in the meantime to listen to a "big Heritage" system with GOOD tubes. This can be a set of Belle Klipsch, LaScala, or Klipschorn on a GOOD tube system. Then you'll know/hear if it's what you like (and a GOOD one - you will). I saved a LOT of money by not doing the "incremental upgrade" thing. Finally made a drive to an amp builder's place and heard a GOOD tube rig on a set of LaScalas, then I knew what I was gunning for and never looked back. You can, of course, experiment with lower cost tube gear and do the incremental upgrade thing, but it's really not the same sonically (but can be fun on the "journey/hobby" aspect). There will be some very alluring aspects of course but stuff that will also be missing. That said, the best investigation you will do here is getting out there and making trips to hear Heritage based systems on GOOD tubes. GOOD solid state, too, and then you'll know about that, too. Then, you'll know between your own ears whether that's what's right for you. No other way of doing this ever got me as far, and understanding what I was really chasing, until I did that. I then blew by all of the "mid-die" level stuff and went to the gears that made my Belles sing, and lived happily ever after 🙂

What worked for me was a new set of crossover networks, as my 1976 Belle Klipsch networks were certainly tired (and FWIW I like the AA network, just using high quality parts) and a really good front end (amp and preamp). Belle Klipsch really like tube gear - where I’ve obtained the best results,, although I have used solid state to good effect as well, but they have always sounded best with tubes to my ears. My journey with my Bicentennial Belles always got better as I upgraded the parts all the way up the chain, from speaker to source. Crossovers, tube gear, caps in that tube gear, tubes in that tube gear....just get everything in the chain as clean as can be and the lovely ladies will reward you. Some acoustic treatment in the basement can’t hurt either, even cloth type decorations/hangings on the walls can make things more settled down if things get too “live” in the room.

I bought a 30 tube, closely matched set of Penta Labs KT88SC not long after I got my VRDs and haven't looked back since. Add to that the old Valve Art KT100 20 pack I got for a relative song prior to that from AES and it's doubtful I will ever look at purchasing a KT88 tube again, save for lucking out into a deal for real vintage Tung-Sols. I'm on my second quad of the Penta KT88SC's in use out of that 30 pack in 10 years, and I could probably make a quad out of those eight combined total tubes already used if I lost one out of the current quad and really had to do that. Pretty reliable and long lasting in my book.....

Marantz 8B is a wonderful amplifier, and if in proper electrical condition would work very well with the Chorus II. The Heritage line Klipsch and similar speakers work really well with quality tube amplification, and a Marantz 8B is certainly a quality amplifier if in proper electrical condition.

Agree with this. So much to say but cannot.

Stop me before I spend again🤣

Buy VRDs.

Understood on both counts.

I thought the BS forum was shut down years ago.....

They were not drop ins. The tweeter hole was about 1/16 of an inch, maybe 3/32 too narrow, had to file the opening to make them fit. Initial listening tests would indicate that they were worth the hassle, however. Apparently this is an issue on earlier models before CNC machines made the hole sizes absolutely consistent and perfect.

Yes. Bought a pair for $260, they DO need another gasket or plywood surround made with a router (best method) to keep the woofer from slapping against the motorboard, as the gasket layer isn't as think as a Klipsch woofer like the K33 would have. There's a BUNCH of commentary on this around the forum, it's been no secret as to it's relative success, which is why I've had it in my list of upgrades for so long. Claude has posted graphs and all sorts of stuff on this.

DSP 2X4HD and microphone arrived today, have RCA to XLR adapters and sub cable in from Monoprice. Let's see how "high maintenance" this gets, LOL. Might be a week or two getting to this project, the remodeling begins a week from Friday with a very important delivery and other remodel prep to take place beforehand.

Got the tweeters and the woofers installed. Tweeters wasn't "drop in" - these required quite a bit of filing of the motorboards to get them to pop in, which was a challenge and an exercise in patience to be sure, but these tweeters are legit. Very extended without being piercing/irritating, gives very nice "air" with sweet, fast, and natural sound. I like !!!! The woofers (Eminence Kappa 15C) presented their own challenge - in addition to the extra gasket I had a woofer quit an hour into the first listening session 😨 Turned out that one of the leads shook itself off (thought I had that covered but missed checking that detail somehow on one of the leads) but WOW are these woofers good. More punch and a tighter bass, as well as more coherency in the midrange. I don't think they suffer in the depth department, either, I just think the tighter presentation and "boot in the chest" makes one focus on that aspect of their sound but I think these are a real hit. And at very reasonable cost, too. It's amazing how much "action" exists sonically in the woofers, not only the bass but so much of the midrange content is here, making them a really important and probably too overlooked part of the system. What I like most is that I've not moved so much away from the Klipsch sound that my speakers are no longer "Klipsch", just a more refined product. These are two reasonably priced upgrades that have been on my radar for some time, particularly for the 2 channel rig, and both achieved the desired results. This, combined with the AA modification to knock down the midrange 3db has the system in balance the way I think an accurate 2 channel rig should be. Once I get the new (to me) preamp here the 2 channel system should be in stasis for the foreseeable future, short of a tube roll or two (and I'm not sure I'll need to do much of that either as I have a good idea where that's going as well).

The parts all got delivered, both the woofers and the tweeters, so as soon as I come up for air on the exterior and basement remodeling prep I'll get this stuff installed and give my facelifted Belles a go 🙂

The Belle went into production in 71 or 72, with the K77V and the K55V which used the AA network. In the early 80's the drivers changed as the manufacturers of the drivers went away from AlNiCo (South African politics, cobalt was largely mined in South Africa) to the K55M and K77M (ceramic) drivers, which used the crossover you show here. So much like the other Heritage, the era in which the speaker was built would determine the precise network Klipsch used, but the Belle at initial release used a type AA, which many people use here to this day, especially with the solder terminal midrange K55 being so popular, making it a natural, and simple network to use.

I'd like to see/read/hear more on the A-55s. Somebody should "roadshow" these. I'm running the solder terminal k55s now and appreciated the change to that driver from the standard Alnico push terminals but as always from reading here the new versions have me curious. Did I mention that these deserve a "roadshow"?

I do appreciate the offer, though. Many times such offers led to experiments that paid off large 🙂 I've had these changes lined up in my head from reading here and suspect I'll get a lot of the results the reviews report. Now that I've got some funds and have made some decisions on the planned "reorganization" for the systems here, it's "go time" 🙂