K-Horns 1st Impression, Jubilees 2nd 1st Impression

[kfoss99]

Hi Guys,

First, a very big thank you to Greg for giving me the opportunity to hear K-Horns for the first time and Jubilees, all in the same afternoon. Also, MCM's

He's posted a much more technical thread earlier this week. He has more details than I will post here.

The K-Horns were stock 1977, except for the awesome reveneer. They had the K77 tweeter, K55 midrange driver, and K400 metal midrange horn, AA crossovers, and K33 woofers. That means something to a lot of you, not so much to me.

The Jubilees are OEM with K402.K69 drivers and passive networks built by Dean Wescott. He deserves a lot of credit. We played music at 3 ohm resistance.

Everything was driven by Greg's Scott 299 fixed up by Craig at NOSValves. He deserves a lot of credit. Music was played on a Denon CD player.

For comparisons, I listended to Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" on Sony gold compact disk and one of Jackson Browne's recent realeses.

Very basic comparison, the K-Horns were like a piano. Every instrument can be clearly distinguished from others. Much like separate notes of a chord on a piano. The bass did not hit me square in the chest, but it's there, somewhere. It feels as if you can be anywhere in the room and the bass is somewhere else. To me this seemed to be like a live concert. There was rarely a bass thump, except on a kick drum, and that was natural sounding. If one wants to learn a part of a song, the K-Horns give great clarity and timbre for the musician. The bad thing about the K-Horns are that vocals seemed to be shouty, much louder than instruments in the mix. Probably, due to the recordings, most people don't have K-Horns, and might need louder vocals for average speakers. For instrumental music the K-Horns were great.

The Jubilees, on the other hand, were like organ music. Or, like a LP record recording. Sounds blended together. "Take Five" sounded like an entirely different recording. The bass hit me where I sat. This may be based on K-Horns using the room to extend bass and Jubilees don't. I'm not sure. This was my second time hearing Jubilees and I was able to get a great first impression. Vocals were much more mellow in the mix, compared to K-Horns. When I hear Jubilees in a different room with active crossovers, I was not impressed. They had great bass but seemed harsh.

Not at all this time, all the instruments melt together, you could tell them all apart, but they seemed to be playing a song. On the K-Horns, it was like a group of guys playing there part, but not together as a band, maybe, separately in the studio. Its hard to explain. But it's like this: An organ is to a Jubilee is to a vinyl record as a piano is to a K-horn is to a CD.

I liked both K-Horns and Jubilees. They are equally good but different. We should all be proud and humbled to be able to hear such great speakers that Paul Klipsch desgined and Klipsch manufactures.

If I were to buy either K-Horns or Jubilees, I don't think I would. I have my dreams on LaScala IIs. K-Horns need good corners and Jubilees just won't work as presently designed, in anything but a stand alone home theater room. The horn is massive! All things being equal, with a perfect room, I'd probably go with MCM's those things kick some &!@!

Thanks again to Greg for letting me hear all his great speakers.

Merry Chirstmas everyone,

Karl

[Coytee]

[Y]

Nice writeup Karl! Hang around a bit. On the LaScala II's, they too, kick some serious hiney! They sound like an entire octave was added to their bottom over the older style. (output is the same but the stronger sidewalls don't resonate as much)

Next time you're at Greg's, you guys should try out the K402 on top of a LaScala (I think he still has some LaScalas laying around??)

You'd need the Dx38 to get it working right and you wouldn't like the appearance in your room, so it would be just for kicks. (sounds good too!)

Those MWM... you can't describe them very well, can ya? lol. About the only word that comes to my mind is "absolutely effortless" Now that you've heard them, you might know what I mean by that but until one hears them, they still won't get it.

[mark1101]

Good post. Question: Can you talk a little about how LOW each of the three played compared to one another? The MWM, The Jub, and the K. Which one plays the lowest? Thanks

[Groomlakearea51]

Yes!!! We need the lowdown.....[H]

[edwinr]

When you get into such exalted territory of high end speakers, it's really hard to arbitarily say that one speaker is better than the other. It's so room, system and listener dependant. I heard some of the best vocals ever from my older Klipschorns. My 'replacement' Martin Logan Summits driven by a Mark Levinson amplifier didn't sound as good as the Klipschorns driven by a French 50 watt mid market solid state amplifier. But in another room the Martin Logans would probably kick butt.

My current 2005 Belles combined with twin REL Strata 5 subwoofers - all driven by a single ended Audiio Note amplifier, is close to the best sound I have ever had in my listening room. The top to bottom coherency approaches that of the Klipschorn, but with much more extended bass. I still feel that the Klipschorn offers the better vocal reproduction. The way the Klipschorns projects vocals (especially on Choral music) is scary. I have yet to hear Klipschorns in my room driven by a really top end tube amplifier. Something to look forward to...

[greg928gts]

Yes!!! We need the lowdown.....

Just remember when Karl gives you the 'lowdown', the MCM's have a 1/3-octave EQ boosting the low low low bass. []

2000 watts of power feeding the beasts right now too! [<)]

Greg

[greg928gts]

The Jubilees are OEM with K402.K69 drivers and passive networks built by Dean Wescott. He deserves a lot of credit. We played music at 3 ohm resistance.

Everything was driven by Greg's Scott 299 fixed up by Craig at NOSValves. He deserves a lot of credit. Music was played on a Denon CD player.

The 3 ohm resistance reference is the tweeter setting on the crossover for the Jubs. The crossovers have a 2 ohm connection and alternatively a 3 ohm. The higher the ohm, the more attenuated the horn is in relation to the woofer. The 3 was better than the 2 and after Karl left I connected the 2 and 3 together in series to get 5, and I thought that sounded even better, although I would like to try 4 ohm, which means I'll have to buy a couple of parts.

The Scott 299 that Craig rebuilt is really a sweet piece of gear. It seems just perfect for Khorns.

The Denon is just being used as a transport (it weighs 22 pounds). I have a MSB DAC, an anti-jitter box and a fancy cable to round out the CD front end. This front end is aging though, I see a new one coming down the tracks, someday when there's light at the end of the tunnel again, and it's not a freight-train coming at me!

Greg

[jwc]

"I have my dreams on LaScala IIs......"

Good call.....

jc

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Nice review.

FWIW, the best that my K Horns ever sounded was when using an active crossover. I was able to dial in each driver and finally get the K Horns to put out bass that kept up with the top end. After that I stopped using a subwoofer because I could not tell when it was on or off.

So I think that you are heading in the right direction tuning the top end down.

[kfoss99]

Sorry for the late reply,

I have no computer at home.

The lowdown on the low end is this:

The MCMs are best, probably, but they are a concert speaker. They are just set up in Greg's shop and I've never given an extended, focused listen to them. My guess is they could be used as a defibralator.

The Jubilee bass is very focused and deep. The speaker seems to produce the bass, unlike the K-Horn. For someone wanting hard hitting bass, this is the speaker to get.

The K-Horn bass may be as low as the Jubilee, but it is ethereal, it seems to be OF the room. Listening to it, I thought kids raised on car subwoofers would think it has no bass at all. I'm not sure that is the case, the K-Horn seems to use the room more for bass production than any of the other speakers.

I hope that helps,

Karl

[NOSValves]

So the K-horns were 100% 1977 stock electronically speaking?

[kfoss99]

So the K-horns were 100% 1977 stock electronically speaking?

As far as I know, yes. Greg wanted me to hear stock K-Horns.

[greg928gts]

So the K-horns were 100% 1977 stock electronically speaking?

Sort of. The mid drivers are the newer black ones (sorry, forgot the model) and the crossovers are of the same vintage but probably not original (old caps). These are my own Khorns that I got in a trade (for a pair of La Scalas that I made into industrial split fiberglass with aluminum trim) back in 1990. They've had many crossovers in them over the years, but after I switched the mid drivers, all the drivers stayed the same.

Greg

[Cut-Throat]

The MCMs are best, probably, but they are a concert speaker. They are just set up in Greg's shop and I've never given an extended, focused listen to them. My guess is they could be used as a defibralator.

What's an MCM ?

[Coytee]

What's an MCM ?

It's pretty ugly!

but boy, you should hear that bass bin with another pretty ugly horn on top of it (K402)

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kpt-mcm-4-t-grand.aspx

[Cut-Throat]

What's an MCM ?

It's pretty ugly!

but boy, you should hear that bass bin with another pretty ugly horn on top of it (K402)

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kpt-mcm-4-t-grand.aspx

Yup! - No WAF on them Babies!

I wonder if anyone has tried that tweeter with a pair of Jubilee's? - I am always suspect of two ways for a Full Range speaker.

[Coytee]

I wonder if anyone has tried that tweeter with a pair of Jubilee's?

I'm under the suspicion that the tweeter horn there is the K510 and it's driver is the K69 which (if correct) is in fact, one of the choices available for the Jubilee. What most have done though is move the K69 down to the K402 horn as I understand it is a better horn than the K510 at controlling the sound.

I'm not sure yet if the driver/horn is the ones mentioned... will verify, I'd hate to be spreading falsehoods.

[dtel]

What about the WAF on these ?...............Very high WAF on them here, after she heard them ! [Y]

Photo by Mark1101, thank's

[greg928gts]

This is the original 4-way MCM system as it would have been sold in the early 80's.

It's my little shop system.

Greg

[greg928gts]

Here is a pic with a La Scala bass bin next to it for size comparison.

"But honey really, they snuggle right into the corners and disappear"

Greg